Good articleBilly Butlin has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
On this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 5, 2011Good article nomineeListed
June 13, 2011Peer reviewReviewed
March 3, 2012Featured article candidateNot promoted
On this day... Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on June 12, 2019, and June 12, 2020.
Current status: Good article

Photo

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Found Some Public Domain Photographs of Billy in his Heyday on the Imperial War museum Homepage, If anyone has better Quality ones they would be appreciated. Also since his headstone is pretty distinct if anyone can upload photographs of it to commons they'd also be appreciated. Stuart.Jamieson (talk) 15:27, 29 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sunday Herald Article

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Discovered this source from the 1952 Sydney, Sunday Herald. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18509519 It has a lot of detail I've not seen anywhere else, I don't know if that makes it unreliable or not - if anyone has opinion It would be appreciated. It's good because it's a secondary source that backs up the biography at butlins-memories it does however have a few conflicts with [1] (his place of birth is the first) advice appreciateStuart.Jamieson (talk) 17:41, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Took decision to use judiciously where it doesn't conflict with other sources. Stuart.Jamieson (talk) 23:40, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Frederick Devine

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According to the cayman islands link, Billy's estate was in part to go to Frederick T Devine - seemingly Sheila's Son from before they married, I'm looking for sources that clarify the relationship with Billy if anyone can find one.Stuart.Jamieson (talk) 19:46, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reading through the Trustees of the Billy Butlin Trust, it looks like Frederick Terry Devine relates to Sheila's brother (known just as Terry) who was the General Manager of Butlins Bognor in the 60's and went on to run Butlin Jersey Enterprises when Billy retired. Stuart.Jamieson (talk) 22:43, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some Tips

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I think all three of those have been improved upon. The lead may require to be tightened up but I think it fairly summarises the article. Person Data added and DabLinks sorted. Stuart.Jamieson (talk) 09:33, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Billy Butlin/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: NtheP (talk) 18:27, 1 June 2011 (UTC) GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria[reply]

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    Prose looks fine to me, there are a couple of grammatical errors to fix, mostly capitalisation e.g. "in his Autobiography" (Early life 2nd paragraph) and "Dolly's Niece" (Personal life, 2nd paragraph). Neither autobiography nor niece are proper nouns, there might be others that I've missed so dont't take these two as exhaustive. There are some spaces to be inserted between values and their current equivalents.
    B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
    Lead and overall layout are fine. I have some reservations about the layout of the references and some wording in the article, see below.
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    All sources are reference but see below and WP:FNNR
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    See below for instances where the source and the text don't agree
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
    Almost there, one possibly non neutral example listed below
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    Not sure File:Bishops Avenue south end - geograph.org.uk - 1324636.jpg adds anything to the article.
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
    File:Early Butlins Chalet.png could be better captioned. Currently it reads that it's listed in Skegness. Suggest something like "One of Butlin's original chalets at Skegness, now preserved and a listed building."
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    All issues addressed, Pass


Reference section

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There are two publications, Scott & Dacre, that are referenced several times. If these are not going to be listed in a separate section e.g.=== Sources === then the full citation should be given the first time the book is used. As it is both Scott and Dacre are referenced several times before the full citation is seen. There also needs to be some consitency over the use of full stops and spaces in conjunction with page numbers p.X. p. X. p. X & p.X are all encountered.

Wording

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 Done

 Done

 Done

 Done

 Done

 Done

 Done

 Done

Throughout there are monetary amounts quoted with current day equivalents. Is it possible to a) standardise the currency and b) use the same year? a) I appreciate that the use of dollars relates to the West Indies adventure but then there is the secondary calculation to be made of "how much is that in £?" use of one currency throughout would provide a better reference point. b) some are expressed in 2010 values and others 2011. You might want to consider as an option using the templates ((Inflation)) and ((Formatprice)).

Update 3 June

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Looking pretty good. I've done a quick copy edit and noticed three more things that need clarifying;

  1. Did Dovercourt open as a Butlins or not? If it did as the Kindertransport records suggest then the lead is wrong where it says that Clacton was second. If it didn't is there a source to confirm this?
  2. Bognor. I assume the champagne was for volunteering to help stay and construct the camp? I think it needs to be made clear as it's possible that champagne was offered as compensation for moving to Clacton.
  3. Tax position in Jersey. Why would he have had to pay so much tax if he had stayed in the UK. I know the UK tax regime can be punative at times but a rate over 100% needs to be explained.

There was also a deadlink but I've changed that for you as the new link doesn't change the statement it supports. NtheP (talk)

  1. No one really knows and the few sources that do mention it tend to be speculatory as Scott is. The lead follows the majority of sources including Dacre that explicitly state Clacton was Butlin's second camp. Dovercourt is similarly considered to have always been a Warner camp by a majority of sources but these sources never give any detail on its early history. If I were to engage in some Original Research I would be suggesting that Dovercourt was subcontracted to Butlin by Warner and that the first year and later "in association" were a means of re-paying the initial construction - I also think that Butlin ran the Lido/funfair side of the site in partnership with Warner who ran the accomodation side; but I have to go with the sources as they stand until we unearth some more. This isn't unheard of in Butlins history as we keep unearthing sources about other Butlin camps/hotels that were otherwise unknown as we attempt to expand articles on those we do know - from the Thatched Barn in Borehamwood, to the Freshfields sites bought after Butlin retired. If you feel the Dovercourt paragraph should be rewritten to downplay his running of it (focusing on his construction and "association" with it) I'm all for that.
If the sources are unclear and/or contradictory then something along the lines of "the second camp Butlin opened was at Clacton (ref Dacre) however some sources e.g. Kindertranport (insert ref) records indicate that the camp at Dovercourt ... (Insert geographical detail and its use as a refugee camp) ..., that Butlin was involved in the construction and opening of, operated as a Butlins camp during the summer of 1938."
  1.  Done
  2. Not sure if there is an explanation, in Dacre he says that his accountant sat him down and told him his income tax and surtax would be 23 shillings for every pound earned (where there were only qctually 20 shillings to the pound) - The surtax rate in '69 was 55% at his income band and basic rate income tax was well over 40% so his rate could have been above 80% but I'm not sure if other taxes came into play - he certainly only mentions income and surtax. Stuart.Jamieson (talk) 21:22, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps leave it simple then? e.g. "For tax reasons Butlin decided to become resident in Jersey where the tax regime was much less oppressive than that of the UK at the time. Had he remained in the UK he would have liable for tax at a rate of 115% of earnings against the 20% rate in Jersey. (ref Dacre)" PS I'm old enough and British so I remember pounds shillings and pence :-) if we can crack these two points I think we are there. NtheP (talk) 12:03, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Water speed record

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Coverage of Butlin's involvement with this is missing. He promised £5,000 bonuses to Donald Campbell for breaking the record. The structure of these bonuses, and the way that they were awarded for quite small increments over the previous record had a significant influence on Campbell's tactics, encouraging repeated small advances on the record, rather than a single large push (although these small-slice tactics eventually led to Campbell being written out of the Wikipedia land speed record article!). Campbell collected the bonus four times, which made a massive contribution to his personal finances, and his funding for further record attempts - Donald Campbell was never the rich man his father Malcolm had been.

There's a whole chapter entitled "The Butlin Years" in Tremayne's The Man Behind The Mask bio of Campbell. If I have time (which is unfortunately short) I might try to add a section. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:23, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Steam railway preservation

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Butlin had a small, but significant, influence on the preservation of UK steam locomotives. He acquired a couple (?) of withdrawn locos in the '60s and placed them at the camps for purely decorative reasons. At least one was later restored to running service. As these were unusually large locos for the typical preservation society budget in the '60s, these were types that were otherwise unlikely to have been preserved. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:26, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, One of the major sources for the article (and other Butlin's related articles) is Peter Scott's "A History of the Butlin's Railways" where it mentions 6229 Duchess of Hamilton , 6233 Duchess of Sutherland , 6203 Princess Margaret Rose , 6100 Royal Scot, and 4 smaller steam engines ( Brighton, Martello, Knowle and Granville ) -But Scott says himself that Butlin didn't buy them for Preservation purposes and it wasn't Butlin himself but adoptive son Robert that gifted them to preservation societies after his father had retired. As such the preservation tale might sit better under Butlins than it would in Billy's biography. Stuart.Jamieson (talk)
I think there's scope for including them, and the water speed record, as an example of Butlin's personal interest in innovative marketing ploys. This wasn't steam preservation (they were only intended as static exhibits for small boys to marvel at), but it was an aspect of Butlin. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:05, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That does sound reasonable, if we can get sources discussing Butlin's Intent in these activities. Stuart.Jamieson (talk) 12:16, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Timing of launch

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A big factor in the success of his first holiday camp was the new law that obliged employers to provide paid holidays. (See his memoirs). 86.183.206.77 (talk) 16:03, 27 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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