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![]() | The contents of the Temporary hardness page were merged into Hard water on 15 November 2011. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
![]() | The contents of the Soft water page were merged into Hard water on 5 March 2021. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
Hi, There is a formula missing that was in the old section:
CaCO3(s) + H2O(l) + CO2(g) ⇌ Ca2+(aq) + 2HCO3-(aq)
Please put it back!
--Lenny B Good (talk) 06:31, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
What is the level of hard water in Charlottsville, Virginia Beach, Richmond, Well water, and Washington D.C.?
Hard water usually consists of calcium, magnesium ions, and possibly other dissolved compounds such as bicarbonates and sulfates.
Pardon? Is there any water in this hardness? uFu (talk) 05:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Are you serious???--98.240.153.125 (talk) 21:45, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
New Definition for hard water has been added to this topic. If any one needs any kind of help in any topic may email to '''online.vcet@gmail.com''' --Thooyavan 04:10, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Hard water is water that has a high mineral content, mg-caco3, etc. Czhou105 (talk) 20:03, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
An anonymous contributor asserted this:
"It has to be in more then 50gms/dm3 in concentration to be called permanent hard water."
Any back-up/citation for this?
WLD 10:20, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
http://www.keidel.com/resource/water/hard.htm
"Permanent hardness is hardness (mineral content) that cannot be removed by boiling."
This should perhaps be reworded to mention precipitation, as in the section above -- when I first read it, I thought it meant that these mineral ions could somehow remain with the water molecules even through a state change (i.e. that they would be in water vapour and remain even if you distilled the water), and was having a hard time believing that. Then I realized that this sentence probably meant "bringing the water to boiling temperature."
184.66.28.75 (talk) 02:44, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
In industrial processes, boiler operation in particular, water is often softened with a Hot-Lime softener, I have done superficial wiki searches and haven't come up with anything referring to hot-lime softening. If anyone can clarify this for me, that'd be great. Otherwise, I will create an article about Hot-Lime softeners. 161.19.64.5 02:25, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
The deposites of Calcium, Limescale, ect. left after hard water has been on a surface and evaporated is often refered to as hard water; however, this is ironic as there is no longer any water present.
Isn't this called a hard water stain? PrometheusX303 20:10, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
The conversion from mg/L of calicum to other hardness scales seems to be bogus. For example, the conversion in the article to German degrees says that 3mg/L of calcium equals 21°dH. According to information I have from a water-testing kit, 21°dH is very hard water. However, other sources on the web say that 3mg/L is very soft water. Perhaps instead of "divide by", the author meant "multiply by".
"Earlier generations coined the phrase 'hard water' because it made cleaning difficult. Hardness is caused by compounds of calcium and magnesium. All freshwater sources contain calcium and magnesium in varying quantities."
That sounds suspect - the opposite of hard water is soft water, not easy water, plus other languages use words for "hard" water which don't include the meaning "difficult". Zocky | picture popups 02:27, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
The correct etymology is from the hardness of beans soaked or cooked in various waters. I first came across this in a chemistry book I read over 40 years ago. The fact that it does vary the hardness of beans is easily verified. 216.179.3.33 16:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)robgood@bestweb.net
Funnily enough, my GCSE chemistry folder from Oxford Open Learning makes the same claim about water used to soften beans, and adds it originated during the American Civil War. So naturally I came here for verification. It is either the least known brilliant story, or just an urban myth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.245.34.11 (talk) 02:53, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
This seems to be a marketing exercise for water softeners - "unsightly spots on dishes" indeed. Colonel Mustard 03:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
I have also encountered a problem with the conversion table (under Types of Measurement). The formula x Clark degrees / 0.175 = y ppm seems off.
In the conversion table it says conversion to mg/L calcium: divide by 0.175. Put to practice: I have 1 Clark degree. To get mg/L I divide by 0.175, i.e. approx. 5.7 mg/L, which should be the same as 5.7 ppm. Yet in the next line One degree Clark corresponds to one grain of calcium carbonate in one Imperial gallon of water which is equivalent to 14.28 parts calcium carbonate in 1,000,000 parts water. – i.e. 14.28 parts per million.
The University of North Carolina's Dictionary of Units Measurement also states the Clark degree is defined as 1 part of calcium carbonate per 70 000 parts of water; this is about 14.3 parts per million (ppm). And Global Water Instrumentation, Inc. has a table stating that 1 ppm = 0.07 Clark degrees, which corresponds to 1 Clark degree = 14.3 ppm.
Could someone check this pls? I’m just a translator attempting to convert French water hardness levels into English ones. Merci beaucoups.
85.207.119.184 16:26, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I have corrected vandalism within the first line of the article. Please view the revision history for details. Chrisbrl88 08:38, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
How is hard-water viewed in non-English speaking parts of the world? Why do we need a warning tag that warns us that this is not a global world-view on Hard Water? Do people in China doubt that Australia has hard water issues? I don't get it, so I'm removing the tag. Vivaldi (talk) 05:33, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
In the early Flash comics of the 1940s, Jay Garrick's fantastic speed is attributed to inhaling "hard water fumes" that render him a "freak of science". See here for comical mumbo-jumbo. Asat 02:40, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I am aware that there are magnetic appliances that can remove the hardness in water. If some one knows more about this, I feel it would be beneficial for it to be included in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Claughton (talk • contribs) 16:38, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
The usefulness of magnetic appliances is still in doubt. The situation is well described on the following webpage:[1]. At this point, given that the scientific evidence for the utility of these approaches is still not proven it's probably best to leave them out. --Libravore (talk) 23:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Surely the calcium ions present in water provide health benefits to the bones and teeth, like calcium in the food? Mad.martian999 (talk) 13:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
This article has lots of interesting technical details. But it doesn't explain why people care about water hardness, and spend so much money softening it. --Isaac R (talk) 18:23, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
"Hardness in water is defined as the presence of multivalent cations." "... a single-number scale does not adequately describe hardness" -> it does it's expressed for example in °f. It probably means that a classification water from (very) soft to (very) hard is not universal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.196.128.79 (talk) 10:33, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I was interested in the number of households with hard water, so I went to the USGS site to try to find where this statistic came from and could not find it anywhere! The USGS does analysis of ground water and surface water and wells (whichever category those go in), not the water coming out of people's taps in their homes, so how could this be a USGS statistic that "households" have hard or soft water? I was hoping that someone at USGS had at least done something like multiplied the population of different areas by the type of ground/surface water prevalent in that area, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Even then you'd have to make assumptions about the prevalence of water softeners in homes. If anyone can find the primary citation for this "fact" it would improve the accuracy of this article.--Libravore (talk) 23:17, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Also on the topic of the USGS citation, their scale of classification for water hardness is quite different to the scale used by the Drinking Water Inspectorate in the UK: http://dwi.defra.gov.uk/consumers/advice-leaflets/hardness_map.pdf. Is there an internationally accepted scale, or should the UK (and potentially other) scales be cited for balance? Joshdwek (talk) 10:07, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
This is regarding a confusing comment in italics. There is an aside that states, “This scale is in substantial disagreement with the references.” The comment is intended as a warning. What is not clear is the confidence that the authors/editors have in the following table. Nor does the “Wikipedia:Manual of Style”, make the purpose clear other than to add emphisis. I assume the author is also in substantial disagreement with the references--"This scale is in substantial disagreement with the references, which are considered inaccurate." However, one could assume that the editors are uncertain why the table is in substantial disagreement with the references--"This scale is in substantial disagreement with the references, which may be more accurate." --Tychicusole (talk) 17:15, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
The overlap between these two articles is rather large, and it would seem to make a lot of sense to address it all in one article.Forbes72 (talk) 23:54, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
The following has been moved from split discussion at Talk:Water_softening to here. Widefox (talk) 00:12, 27 February 2012 (UTC) and now merged by strike-through all duplicate comments/votes Widefox (talk) 00:33, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
I think that these two articles' subjects overlap quite a bit, and would do well to be addressed together. — Precedingunsigned comment added by Forbes72 (talk •contribs) 23:58, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
:Support. As indicated at {[Talk:Hard water]], I am in favor the proposed merger.--Smokefoot (talk) 04:22, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
yes yes yes yes yes yes — Preceding unsigned comment added by50.88.198.31 (talk) 16:00, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
OPPOSED Also as indicated at {[Talk:Hard water], there are other documented and substantiated ways to address hardness in water than softeners, such as Ion Exchange, Scale Inhibitors, and Physical Water Treatment like Template Assisted Crystallization. (See Peter Fox's ASU study, presented to the AZ Water Quality Association, November 19th, 2010, Tempe, AZ) To merge the articles creates a de facto endorsement of traditional softeners which is increasingly problematic as some municipalities begin to legislate against brine softening. Here is an article that lays this out:http://www.wcponline.com/pdf/1101Michaud.pdf Darcyjae (talk) 17:22, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
Oppose Water softening is a process. Hard water is a thing. They are related, but they are quite different in some very fundamental ways. Additionally, it will be a VERY confusing concept to grasp for a person who is simply searching "water softening", and lands at a page called "hard water". Definitions for hard water and soft water require a different page than would the process of altering the water content. Also, water softening is a much more frequently searched topic than "hard water" is because of the ubiquitousness of water softening products. The only reason that someone would choose to combine the two topics (rather than just leaving a hyperlinked section/heading within each article, linking to the other article) would be to prove how amazing, astute, and knowledgable they are. Seems like a bit of a conceited suggestion. "Look at what I noticed. I'm so great!" ...Not a good idea. Bizzurp (talk)
Oppose see Dust and cleaning Saline water and Desalination. Comment merging might demystify softening techniques and help eliminate "free lunch" non chemical treatments (e.g. Magnetic water treatment ) Widefox (talk) 22:24, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Oppose They are two different things. It is right they have their own article. Stevo1000 (talk) 22:53, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Oppose. The two are opposite concepts, both with a decent amount of information to their articles. Leave them as is. Dmarquard (talk) 10:17, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Something is adrift with the conversions in the Measurement section here. If:
which is what the first table gives, then, by simple multiplication,
which is not what the second table gives. Instead it has:
They can't both be right. The fifth column of that table seems pointless. If mg/l and ppm are the same, why have a column for each, and with different ranges to boot? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:39, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Hi, guys, could someone guide me why I can't link en(Hard water) <-> ru(Жёсткость воды) articles?
When I edit links of `en` to add reference to `ru` I get: > The link enwiki:Hard water is already used by item Q22988272.
When I edit `Q22988272` to add link to `ru` I get: > The link ruwiki:Жёсткость воды is already used by item Q192905.
When I edit `Q192905` to add link to `en` I get: > The link enwiki:Hard water is already used by item Q22988272.
So it looks like `Q192905` and `Q22988272` blocks each other.
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There appears to be nothing about the importance of hardness for the aquarium industry? The standard there is German hardness. Even in the US. See e.g. Aquarium water quality (Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services offices)[1] Jcwf (talk) 16:41, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Soft water is a small, near-stub article, half of which is talking about hardness anyway. Rather than the daunting task of trying to expand Soft water, a merger under the general topic Water hardness (currently a redirect) makes sense. Pariah24 (talk) 10:49, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
Done - Two months is plenty of time to catch any objections. I have added almost all the content except for obvious duplication. There may still be some residual duplication - please feel free to copy edit. I have not changed the title per Michael D. Turnbull. I would suggest that this be treated as a separate proposition. I would not oppose such a renaming. Velella Velella Talk 12:37, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
"The various alternative units represent an equivalent mass of calcium oxide (CaO) or calcium carbonate (CaCO3) that, when dissolved in a unit volume of pure water, would result in the same total molar concentration of Mg2+ and Ca2+"
How does the dissolving of calcium carbonate in water result in Mg+2? MimJan (talk) 12:24, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
There's much about softening hard water, but nothing about hardening water that is so soft that it's like suds to the touch. 89.64.68.237 (talk) 23:45, 15 December 2023 (UTC)