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The Classical language is that of the Malaccan court, including after the court moved to Johor/Riau. Indonesian is not based on the Malay of Riau, which is something altogether different; rather, Classical/Malaccan Malay is called "Riau" in Indonesian. Same for "Johor" in Malaysia:
— kwami (talk) 05:54, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
I understand that the quote comes from Ethnologue, but "Indonesian is 80% cognate with Malaysian" seems a major understatement, I think it would be more something like 98%, those are just my 2 cents..Tsfardea (talk) 02:48, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
The content of the Speakers and geographic distribution section appears to veer towards expressing impartiality in terms of language importance (as measured by number of speakers) over Malay. The section could end at the current phrase "as one of the largest spoken language in the world" and better meet Wikipedia's [WP:MOS] without the following presumptive statements about why the language is used by VOA and the BBC where neither source, in actual fact, provides an explanation. Certain contributors to both Malaysia and Indonesia articles have a history of expressing bias in both directions given the countries' common histories and rivalry, and this is sometimes done in subtle ways. Would appreciate some input on the matter; is the second section truly relevant when it is only supposition? The points made in this paragraph are not especially clearly written, either. Thank you for your feedback. Jeljen (talk) 03:27, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
The article mentions loan words and attempts to explain the history, sources, context, use, etc. That's fine although it's a little shallow and unreferenced in coverage. My concern is the long lists of words used as example. The Chinese and Portuguese have 10 or 20 examples each. This is excessive. An article of prose doesn't need a long list to make a point. Just say there are borrowed words, and possibly give 2 or at most 3 examples. We already have Lists of Loanwords and these are clearly linked. --Merbabu (talk) 23:33, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
The image of Indonesian Wikipedia DVD release was meant to demonstrate and inform the reader about the distribution, popularity and impact of wikipedia articles in Indonesian. It is also to demonstrate the wide use of Indonesian on the net as language of science and internet free encyclopedia. However an editor constantly involved almost in an edit war on deleting this image and its caption. It is not a self-important BS. For the time being the statues-quo is preserved (keeping the image) as it has been done for months before. Let's discuss and provide yourself with good argument instead of indulging oneself in deleting guerrilla and led us to edit war.Gunkarta (talk) 06:42, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
It shouldn't be there. I agree that it's trivial. It's also WP referencing WP. There are no actual secondary sources verifying the notability of this info. THus, it's a little ORish and smacks of synthesis in my opinion. The fact that it has apparently been in the article for some time is irrelevant. Lots of stuff that should not be in wikipedia is here for years, and a lot of stuff that should be in wikipedia is not yet here. Also, "it does not harm" is not a valid argument. If it doesn't have a benefit then it shouldn't be there. It's irrelevant whether there is (apparently) no disadvantage. Gunkarta, perhaps you could initiate an RFC if you would like to get opinion from a broader range of editors. regards -Merbabu (talk) 09:34, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
I've removed these kinds of adverts from a couple other language articles, though in one I left a trivia section, where Wikipedia was mentioned among other media such as Facebook. Actually, such sections should probably be deleted as well (how is it notable if a language is used for Facebook?), but at least they're more balanced.
For comparison, take a look at Greek language. Greek also has a WP (actually, it has two), but they are only mentioned in the 'External links' section. That's the norm. Making a big deal about Indonesian makes is sound as though speakers feel inferior and have something to prove: Look at our language! It has a dictionary! People write it on paper! — kwami (talk) 20:10, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
I agree about the lack of notability. It's terribly self-indulgent, and is almost like saying "See - we have Wikipedia in Indonesian, just like a real language!" - which might even make it POV. In any case it doesn't belong... Davidelit (Talk) 00:34, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Okay guys, we have heard the majority's oppinion oppose the image and its caption, and I think you all right. I've removed the image. Case resolved.Gunkarta (talk) 09:56, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
This article has an obvious problem with the number of speakers. It says that there are "a total of 23,187,680 speakers worldwide" but then that "around 140,000,000 speakers use it as a second language". I assume that those who speak it as a second language are still considered speakers and if so there should not be 6 times more second speakers!!! If there are then the first statement should read "a total of 23,187,680 people with Indonesian as their native tongue worldwide".
Please this is English wikipedia. Please do not deposit long sections of material that are not in english. Thank you satusuro 09:56, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
The article contains 2 apparently contradictory statements:
"Most Indonesians also speak one of more than 700 indigenous languages."
"In a nation which boasts more than 300 native languages and a vast array of ethnic groups, it plays an important unifying and cross-archipelagic role for the country."
Dynzmoar (talk) 15:22, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
I found this very confusing: "The Indonesian Language was originally written using the van Ophuijsen system,..." Does this mean there was no Indonesian language prior to 1901? Or prior to 1945? Does it just mean a type of Malay was spoken, but it wasn't called Indonesian? The History section is unclear on this. It seems to me there should be some mention of Jawi. Kendall-K1 (talk) 20:16, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
I've just compared the present page with the most recent 50 older edits, and even then the Infobox was damaged. DFH (talk) 20:55, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
There is lots of flip flop in this section regarding: 1. whether Malay "became" Indonesian 2. whether Indonesia comes from Malay or from Old Malay 3. whether the term "Malay-Indonesian" means anything to people outside Singapore (most of whose ethnic "Malays" are descended from Indonesians)
Also the leveling value of Bahasa in comparison to the caste-based royal-high-low registers of Javanese and Balinese is completely omitted, which implies that world expert sociolinguist de Swaan neglected to discuss it in his book.
Jeljen made a good point about rivalry in the Talk about Geographical Distribution. I think there's generally an inherent bias toward Malaysia and against Indonesia because England remained a world power long after Holland declined, and many of the researchers Ethnologue etc rely on are English-speaking. To me, an American who has spoken Bahasa for over 20 years, there is rampant conflation of Bahasa Melayu with Old Malay in supposedly well-researched articles. The situation is almost as bad as saying the people in France speak Romanian because their language is a Romance language. Martindo (talk) 00:48, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
I think Dwi Chania was on the right track to present a quasi-Rosetta stone. Contrary to Davidelit's "irrelevant" assertion, I think a cross comparison would be very useful to clarify similarities and differences between Old Malay, Malaysian, and Indonesian. There are a couple problems with Dwi Chania's first attempt, however: 1. The English is sloppy. Not only grammar, but also translating "dua belas" as "two". 2. The comparison is not broad enough.
I'm not sure how layout would work but I propose either a four-column array or else TWO three-column arrays:
A. Old Malay / Malaysian (modern) / Indonesian (modern) / English (good translation) B. Sanskrit (or Pali) / Old Malay / Malaysian and then below it another set: Malaysian / Indonesian / English (assuming that 5 columns would be too much of a squeeze in the layout) Martindo (talk) 05:10, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
I recently found this sentence in the article:
Ku-dengar raja itu penyakit sopak. Aku tahu ilmu tabib. Aku-lah mengubati dia.
"It has come to my attention that the Raja has a skin disease. I am skilled in medicine. I will cure him."
The sentence is actually Malay, not Indonesian. According to the English translation, the Indonesian sentence would be:
Kudengar raja itu berpenyakit sopak. Aku tahu ilmu tabib. Akulah yang 'kan mengobatinya.
I don't know much about Malaysian Malay's grammar, but I am pretty sure that Ku-dengar raja itu penyakit sopak. is not right. The word penyakit needs a prefix ber- in order to make it a verb. Andrean182 (talk) 16:03, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
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I'm from Indonesia and some of people mispronounced e.g. "Indonesia", which supposed be pronounce as in the IPA transcription. Some speakers pronounced it as voiceless palatal fricative (/ɕ/) (Chinese "x" and Japanese "sh" as example), instead of "In-do-ne-sia" but "In-do-ne-shia" (note that Indonesians (not all) can't pronounce "sh", as it's orthography that voiceless post-alveolar fricative written as "sy" (/ʃ/), and "sh" just simply "s" or less likely aspirated (/sʰ/)).
For "sy" case, this also same, like in "syariah" (mostly Arabic loadwords). ChineseKid676 (talk) 12:30, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
Under "Loan words of Sanskrit origin" this paragraph is used to demonstrate the abundantness of Sanskrit loanwords.
"Karena semua dibiayai dana negara jutaan rupiah, sang mahaguru sastra bahasa Kawi dan mahasiswa-mahasiswinya, duta-duta negeri mitra, Menteri Kebudayaan dan Pariwisata suami-istri, beserta karyawan-karyawati lembaga nirlaba segera berdharmawisata ke pedesaan di utara kota kabupaten Probolinggo antara candi-candi purba, berwahana keledai di kala senja dan bersama kepala desa menyaksikan para tani yang berjiwa bersahaja serta berbudi nirmala secara berbahagia berupacara, seraya merdu menyuarakan gita-gita mantra, yang merupakan sarana pujian mereka memuja nama suci Pertiwi, Dewi Bumi yang bersedia menganugerahi mereka karunia dan restu, meraksa dari bahaya, mala petaka dan bencana."
Should a translation in English be provided? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.206.181.191 (talk) 14:44, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
The terms "Aurat", "Arvad", "Avret", and "Awrath" may refer to: Women of Asian religious or cultural descent and identity.
Self nomination for AFD since article copy pasted to Draft:Aurat for incubation because IMHO current article title Aurat (word) is misleading and confusing leading to western systemic bias and stifling the article growth. Please find Detail reason at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aurat (word)
I invite project members to review current and potential sourcing and weigh in on the AfD discussion. Thanks! Bookku (talk) 02:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello many greetings,
Requesting your proactive contribution and support in updating Draft:Aurats (word) in relation to the related languages you know well.
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku (talk) 03:20, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
The "Language family" entry in the infobox is about the historical linguistic classification of the variety of Standard Malay which formed the base of the Indonesian language. And historically, this is clearly not a Riau variety of Malay (almost all of which are o-dialects; how could Indonesian emerge from an o-dialect?). It is uncontroversial that Indonesian was based on "Riau Malay" if we mean by this the Classical Malay which was the literary language of the Riau Sultanate. But historically, this variety originates from Malacca, via Johore. This is what Husen Abas clearly describes in his book Indonesian as a Unifying Language of Wider Communication : A Historical and Sociolinguistic Perspective. –Austronesier (talk) 19:48, 27 December 2020 (UTC)