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I'm a bit sceptical of this "(as played at the professional level)" - there are really a very small number of truly professional players, and I'm not convinced that, for example, Djordjeic - Kovacevic, Bela Crkva 1984 (given as the shortest tournament game) involves one of them. Tim Krabbé (who I assume is the source of this) says that this was a "serious tournament" but that's not the same thing as "professional". Are we sure that "professional" is correct? --Camembert
What about an entry for "longest winning streak" in serious tournament games? Didn't Fischer go 17 games at one point without losing or drawing? -Fritzlein 18:23, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Here are categories of records, which in my opinion would greatly enhance this page. I don't have time right now to go research, but will when I get it. In the mean time if anybody's willing to have a crack at it, please, by all means.
I agree with you completely- and I believe that even more should be added to that, eg. shortest possible game- fools mate, most common opening played, least sensible opening (a matter of opinion, I know but this is almost universally agreed) 1...f5 in response to 1.e4 and to play 1.f3 to start with then with 2.Kf2.
Also, what about most dangerous accepted opening for White or Black? And the most high-risk (higher win-loss rate than draws)openings? They should be quite interesting.
An important record needed here is the strongest performance ever in a tournament, since achieving 6-0 against average GMs may be "easier" than achieving 5-1 against super-GMs. A serious contender in this category would be Magnus Carlsen's performance of 3002 at Nanjing Pearl Spring 2009 (6-4-0), category 21 (average rating 2763). This is probably the only performance ever above 3000 for an entire tournament. FP
Another important record we might want to consider is latest novelty. Off the top of my head, I'd point to http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1069915 (move 30), but I'm sure there are probably later ones I don't know about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.247.41.80 (talk) 21:50, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Under Shortest Game, in the "ridiculous" game between Hubner and Rogoff it should be obvious that after 4...0-0 the move 5 Qxd7 does not give check. Is it the score that is wrong, or the check? Cottonshirt (talk) 08:59, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Chessbase says that Sergei Tiviakov went 110 games without a loss from 28.10.2004 until 28.09.2005.[1] This is the first I've heard of this and I'm a little skeptical. Can anyone with access to a database confirm? Peter Ballard (talk) 23:25, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Looks like it was rated: here. Bubba73 (talk), 00:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
In the References section, I cite an Internet article by Tim Harding, and supply an author-link for Tim Harding (chess). However, it doesn't show up, nor is it redlinked. I have no idea why the author-link doesn't work. Can some take a look at this and see if you can fix it? Thanks. Krakatoa (talk) 09:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Do two computers count? http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/chess2/honor.htm 493 Moves. SunCreator (talk) 12:54, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
This one looks out of place with the others. This is a composition, while ALL the others are people playing in tournaments. Also, it's not explained very well. I considered deleting it, but thought I should get other's views. The only advantage of it, is that it has a visual component, which is otherwise lacking on this page. BashBrannigan (talk) 20:13, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
I am restoring Valentina Gunina's perfect score at the 2010 Moscow Blitz tournament Women's section on the following grounds, despite it being once reverted by Krakatoa on the grounds of Wikipedia:Notability.
The article claims that the youngest player to achieve an Elo rating did so at about age 5, attaining a 1283 rating. This seems very doubtful. Michael Aigner, in an article on the United States Chess Federation website, notes that a 3-year-old scored 3/7 in the 2010 Golden State Open. Krakatoa (talk) 06:21, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Is there a minimum percentage score for a simultaneous exhibition be considered for a world record? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 05:48, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Would it not be more practical to order this section by the number of wins achieved? The list is ordered by date at the moment, which seems to make some sense, but people would more likely to be looking for the 'greatest' achievement rather than the 'first' IMO. Alternatively, we could put the various stats on this page into sortable tables. Thomasdav (talk) 14:59, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
This is one of those records where an extended discussion is likely to turn up new record holders repeatedly, when people like me stumble across this page and happen to know of a player who can beat the currently listed one. Right now Ortvin Sarapu is listed as the record holder, having won or co-won the New Zealand championship 20 times. However, a press release from the Guatemalan Sports Federation states that Carlos Juarez has won that country's championship 24 times. Here is a link to the press release (in Spanish): http://cdag.com.gt/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Final-Masculino.pdf. I am submitting an update to list Juarez as the record holder, but would not be surprised if somebody else has surpassed that figure. Caissanist (talk) 11:42, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
In the interests of being neutral about the FIDE/Classical split (as well as the fact that the Nigel Short and Judit Polgar articles count them), I think we should also have most wins against FIDE world champions. I've done some looking on Chessgames and Kasparov has beaten 11 (everyone since Smyslov onwards except himself and Fischer). Karpov hasn't beaten Ponomariov so he has 10 at best. Korchnoi has 10 (the 8 classical champions listed in the article, plus Topalov and Ponomariov). and Short has defeated 9 (see Talk:Nigel Short). I know this is WP:OR, but I can't imagine anyone else being in a position to defeat 11 World Champions, and it's easy to verify on Chessgames too. I propose saying that Kasparov has defeated 11, without claiming it as a record. Adpete (talk) 09:33, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
What about fewest moves to stalemate?95.45.146.18 (talk) 19:57, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
I thought 2 moves was the least needed to get checkmate. http://www.chess.com/article/view/2-move-checkmate — Preceding unsigned comment added by Perfectamundo (talk • contribs) 20:17, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
This page is poorly organised, with unrelated records mixed up in no particular order. I'm going to add a few subheadings. MaxBrowne (talk) 04:25, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, I am only user on the German speaking Wikipedia (user frostengel there) and therefore have to post anonymous here. The record posted here is not the real record, as https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_B%C3%B6hringer German chess player Wolf Böhringer lead the "Schacheck" for over 59 years. It was printed once a week for the whole time in the "Heilbronner Stimme", news paper of a German city. The "Schackecke" (chess corner) still exists but now someone else leads it. Still the record for a printed chess column seems to go to Wolf. Jochen (user frostengel on German wikipedia); 9:11 (GMT+2), 15 September 2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.223.128.68 (talk) 07:13, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
Please delete this "record". It is not mentioned outside Wikipedia. --Chvsanchez (talk) 00:27, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Article states: "In terms of number of moves, the quickest mate possible in chess is known as Fool's mate (1.g4 e5 2.f3?? Qh4# and variants thereof)". How many moves is that? 3 I assume but it's not obvious to someone who doesn't know chess notations. Can someone who is sure add the number of moves to the article? Cls14 (talk) 13:27, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Edit in dispute is this one: [7]
I think it's not worthy of inclusion because it's an example of a much-higher rated player playing in small tournaments. Teknews thinks that doesn't matter. I'm requesting a 3rd opinion, because I don't think we'll be getting anywhere by further discussion. Banedon (talk) 03:27, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
A few comments - there is far too much detail considering that this player is not even considered notable enough for his own article, and isn't even mentioned in any other wikipedia chess article. Also, it appears none of these events complied with FIDE conditions and were not FIDE rated. [8] And as already pointed out the achievement is not so impressive when you consider that most of his opponents were rated over 400 below him. It deserves a passing mention at best, per WP:UNDUE. MaxBrowne (talk) 04:31, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
Keep in mind the following: The tournaments that Fischer played in, including the Western Open, and the New York Open were not Fide rated tournaments. Also, all of the games that Steinitz played were not Fide rated, especially since they were played before Fide even existed. Many of Fischer's opponents were 400 points weaker than him, and many of Steinitz's opponents were considerably weaker than him, and probably about 400 points or more weaker in strength. That is the whole reason that Steinitz won 25 consecutive games, and why Fischer won 24 consecutive games. Nobody wins 25 games in a row, against opponents that are his exact equal. There is no qualification here about these tournament games having to be Fide rated. That is just an arbitrary qualifier that is not stated in the record of "Consecutive Games". This is not a question of the results being impressive, as the question is ONLY in "consecutive tournament games". If you are looking for "impressive victories", then there is another records category on this Wikipedia page, which is called "Consecutive wins against Masters". That is an entirely different category of record, and one that qualifies that the opponents need to be masters. There is no question at all that FM Lucky has the new record, and that all of these other qualifiers are simply red herrings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teknews (talk • contribs) 05:25, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
OK, here are the answers to the above points:
1. The writer refers to Fischer having wins against GM's. However, he may be looking at the wrong record. There is an entirely different record category on this Wikipedia page, which is titled: "Wins against Masters". In the category that we are discussing, the category title is simply "Consecutive Wins". There is no requirement that the opponents be masters. Even still, Lucky does have a win against a master, and several experts. Although this is not a requirement here, because the category is simply consecutive wins against tournament players. 2. The writer goes on to make a comparison about Steinitz playing some strong players. Yes, some of Steinitz's opponents were strong for that time period, and some of them were very weak. Some of Steinitz's opponents would have been weaker than the master and expert opponents that FM Lucky had beaten in his winning streak. However, this argument is all irrelevant, and a complete red herring. The records question here is not about the strength of the opponents, but it is ONLY about the length of the winning streak, against tournament players. We keep coming back to arguing the strength of the opponents, and the only question here is the length of the winning streak. When looking for the strength of the opponents, one must consider ONLY the other category, which is the category of "Wins against Masters". That is a different category, in which the title is held by Fischer, for his 20 wins against masters. On a side note: Although it really doesn't matter, FM Lucky did beat a strong master, several experts, and several former state champions, in 2 different states, in his record winning streak. I have already offered a source, and proof of FM Lucky's winning streak, which is proven and back up by the US Chess Federation. That link is in the article, shows FM Lucky's complete tournament record, and is 100% of his winning record. Other articles, and more sources are being published soon, which will only back up the original source from the US Chess Federation. Possibly the article could be thinned out, with less words. However, with all of the red herring questions that have arose, it seemed necessary to provide enough information to prove the point that FM Lucky is the new record holder. Any attempt to remove the article completely will only be doing readers a disservice, by hiding the truth, and presenting an old & outdated record. 3. In conclusion, just look at the actual words in this record: "Consecutive Wins" Now, compare that record category with the other related record, which is: "Consecutive wins against Masters". Now, FM Lucky is clearly the new record holder in the category of "Consecutive Wins". There is NO inference in that category that all opponents need to be masters, as that is the Other category. There is NO inference of a rating differential. There is NO inference of Fide rated games. Clearly the Steinitz games were not Fide rated, and many of the Fischer games were not Fide rated. There are NO hidden inferences in this category. The category is simply, and plainly written, which is just: "Consecutive Wins". All other comparisons of who's opponents are totally irrelevant. I recommend that the article should definitely stay, otherwise it will be doing a disservice to readers, by hiding, and covering up the real truth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teknews (talk • contribs) 07:04, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
There is no conflict of interest. My main concern the the record is accurately reflected. A club player could not simply claim a record here, without proving the tournament wins. I have already offered the link to the US Chess Federation site, whereby the US Chess Federation has proven the 36 game winning streak from FM Lucky. Also, the article that you cite from the Idaho Chess Association, and Northwest Chess Magazine, from several months ago, wrote that FM Lucky had achieved a winning streak (in Idaho at that time) of 27 consecutive wins. If you add the 4 previous tournament games that were played in Nevada, and the last 5 tournament games played in December, then that proves the 36 wins, from a secondary source. As to the 24 game winning streak of Fischer: Some of his opponents at the Western Open in Bay City, MI, and at the New York Open, were only B-Players, A-Players, and experts, especially in the early rounds of the random open tournaments that he played in. The weaker players that Fischer played were much weaker than the Master, the Experts, and the (8) games involving former State Championns that FM Lucky had beaten in his 36 game winning streak. However, this point of discussion is completely irrelevant, and going in the wrong direction. The record here in question is strictly about "Consecutive Wins" versus tournament players, played in official rated tournaments. It does not matter who played the stronger opponents, or how many Masters the FM Lucky played, versus how many Masters that Fischer played. Those discussions involve entirely different records, and entirely different issues. If you want to discuss wins against masters, then there is a totally separate records category here, which is titled" Most Consecutive Wins Against Masters". Bobby Fischer holds that record, with his 20 wins against masters. We are discussing a totally different record here, that does not pre-suppose numbers of masters played. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teknews (talk • contribs) 17:43, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
It doesn't seem likely that 36 wins is a record. For instance, a local (Pittsburgh) chess teacher has at least 30 consecutive wins. When he takes a class of pupils, he promises to get them all rated games, and if there is an odd number, he plays the odd man, and of course wins. This is not an uncommon practice among teachers of junior players. I think that if random USCF rated events are allowed for this record, the record is probably well above 36. I do not have time to search the USCF rating database to confirm this; I think the burden of proof is very much on the person claiming the record. Bruce leverett (talk) 18:44, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
36 wins is definitely the record, unless you can offer proof otherwise. You can't say that it seems unlikely, without offering any proof at all. You are offering no proof that a chess teacher has won 30 consecutive tournament game wins. Where is your link to that? You are just making a random assertion, and providing zero evidence. In the case of FM Lucky, there was already a link to the US Chess federation website, proving, and showing his tournament record, in which the USCF has provided in chronological order. Also, you say that the burden of proof is for the editor to prove a negative? That makes no sense at all. The editor has already proven the record of FM Lucky, and it would be impossible for him to research into every players record, for the possibility that someone else may have a high record. It's up to you to prove your assertion, if you claim someone else may have done better. If you say that you don't have time to back up your claim, then you shouldn't make the claim in the first place.
The point regarding Fischer's record has already been well argued in the above notes. The point that at least 5 of his opponents were not masters, is further proof that in this category, there is no requirement that all opponents need to be masters. It has already been agree to that Fischer did play many strong players, although that is not the relevant factor, in dealing with "Consecutive Wins" ONLY. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.19.144.61 (talk) 18:58, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
Regarding FM Lucky not beating anyone over 1900, that is not correct. Take a look at this tournament here: http://www.uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?201308115732.1-10462967 The first 2 games of his streak start with beating a 2200 Master, and then beating an expert after that. In his next tournament, he beat a 2136 rated expert twice. Here is the link for that: http://www.uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?201309282562-10462967 I disagree on the whole burden of proof issue. It is a settled fact that FM Lucky won 36 games in a row, since anyone can look that up, and verify it on the USCF website. If anyone doubts that 36 consecutive wins in a row is a record, then they will have to do 2 things: A. They will have to show that someone has more than 36 wins in a row. B. They will then need to remove and delete the Steinitz record. If 36 wins in a row is not a record, then certainly 25 wins in a row is not a record either. Neither would the modern record of Fischer winning 24 games in a row be a record. I'm pretty sure that the number 36 is higher than both 25 and 24. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teknews (talk • contribs) 21:47, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for mentioning, and quoting the Idaho Chess Association article, which was printed in Northwest Chess Magazine, August Edition. This is the second source, and the article can be seen on page 4, at the following link: http://nwchess.com/nwcmag/pdf/NWC_201608_opt_color.pdf The article is very definitive, and clarifies the following points: A. FM Lucky had a consecutive winning streak of 27 games played in Idaho, as of August. * However, when you add in the (4) games FM Lucky won in Nevada, just prior to his Idaho wins, and add in the (5) wins the FM Lucky just won in December, then he reaches the magic number of 36 straight consecutive wins. Incidentally, the 4 wins in Nevada, and the 5 wins in December have already been verified on the other source, which is the US Chess Federation website (link already provided a few times). Now, the author of the article, clearly states he knows for sure that FM Lucky has won 27 Idaho games in a row, and there is NO uncertainty in that article. Combined with the USCF tournament record, we know 100% for sure that FM Lucky has an overall consecutive winning streak of 36 games in a row. The author of the Northwest Chess article also clearly states that he knows of nobody at all who has ever broken the record of FM Lucky. The author does mention that he doesn't have complete omniscient knowledge, and doesn't know whether or not it's an all time record. That is only a statement of his own personal research, and his statement can equally be applied to Steinitz's record or 25 wins, or Fischer's record as well. The key point is this: There is a second source, and that information about FM Lucky's winning streak was published in Northwest Chess Magazine. The author clearly states that he believes that FM Lucky set a record, and that he knows of nobody who has ever beaten his record. Therefore, we now have the USCF rating list as the primary source, and we now have the Northwest Chess Magazine as the secondary source. These are two extremely solid, and reputable source. It is hard to get better sources than the United States Chess Federation, and Northwest Chess Magazine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teknews (talk • contribs) 01:24, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
OK, a couple of points here: Some people get confused on the different types of records there are. A Simultaneous exhibition is a completely different type of event, from a classical tournament game. The consecutive winning records in this category are all about "classical tournament chess games", and NOT simul games, and not blitz games. Next point: You mention that the author of the NW Chess magazine says: "(that may or may not be a record)" If you read the complete article, then you will understand why the author says that. In the article he talks about a player from the past who had a very long "non-losing" streak. Many people confuse the differences between a "non-losing" streak, and a "consecutive winning" streak. However, the author then states the following: The other is that the writer of the article from 1960 (Dick Vandenburg) considers the perfect record to be maintained if a draw had been the result of the 1960 game, implying that Mr. Buckendorf did or could have drawn games during this time." The point is that the player from the past had a non-losing streak, and not a consecutive winning streak. Since the author (Jeff Roland) doesn't have all records from the past, he then hedges himself at the end of his article, since he doesn't know for sure, and doesn't have all past records. However, clearly the author points out that he does not know of anyone who has ever beaten FM Lucky's record. Secondly, we don't need the source to confirm conclusively that FM Lucky's 27 wins in June, or his 36 consecutive wins from 2013 - 2016. That is not the job of the author. The author just needs to verify FM Lucky's record, and then his record can be compared to existing known records, such as the Steinitz record. Next point: You claim that "If this is indeed taken as a record then it can't be too hard for a top-class GM to break." That statement is so wrong, for multiple reasons. First of all, if it was so easy for a GM to break the record, then why haven't they broken the Steinitz record in the last 100 year? That is because it is NOT so easy to break the record. GM's are notorious for having many draws, and especially in the last round, when a draw will clinch first place. FM Lucky played for a win in the last round of 8 tournaments in a row, even though a draw would have clinched first place in each of those events. Secondly, GM's avoid many tournaments whereby they may get upset, and lose rating points. Thirdly, I can claim that I could have beaten Michael Phelps record in swimming if I wanted to, but the whole point is that I haven't, and I didn't! GM's have had over 100 years to try and beat the Steinitz record, but they haven't yet. On the other hand, if a GM comes out and finally beats the new record held by FM Lucky, then that's great for the GM, as he will deserve the record (if and when that happens). However, we don't award records to people because MAYBE they could beat the record of somebody. Last point: You say that if Tim Krabbe or Edward Winter says that FM Lucky has the title, then you will agree. I'm sorry but this record is the record, and it is not dependent upon what any one person out there says. The records stands on its own merits, and has already been proven by 2 different sources. I'm sure that in time, Tim Krabbe will update his own site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.19.144.61 (talk) 03:11, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
Nobody was adding their own views to an article. On the contrary, the previous editor was taking one sentence completely out of context, from a full page article. The point was that if the editor is going to quote one sentence out of context, then he needs to read the full article, so that he understands what that sentence even means. Some of the above discussions are about motives, and speculative theories about "maybe" someone could possibly beat the consecutive winning game record. Maybe they could, and maybe they couldn't. If and when they do, then at that time, we can recognize their new record. However, they can't get recognized based on a theory that maybe, possibly someone else could beat the record. Right now we have to deal with the reality of today, which is that FM Lucky is the new record holder of consecutive wins. Now, if you end up removing the reference to FM Lucky's new record, then you absolutely have to remove both the reference to the Steinitz record of 25 wins, and of the Fischer reference of 24 wins. You will just have to replace it with a statement that says: We have no idea who holds this record". It would be a complete and utter deceptive lie to mention the Steinitz consecutive wins of 25 games, and the Fischer wins of 24 games, without mentioning FM Lucky's 36 games. Also, even if you make the strange point that the Northwest Chess article only mentions FM Lucky's 27 wins (not counting the 4 wins in Nevada, and the 5 wins in December), then FM Lucky is STILL the records holder, since even his 27 consecutive Idaho wins would beat both the Steinitz record, and the Fischer record. By the way, FM Lucky is very well known in Idaho, and does have a lot of fans in the Idaho & Northwest areas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.19.144.61 (talk) 04:21, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
Having looked at the NW Chess article that you cited, I appreciate that you might not necessarily have been acting out of conflict of interest, and thanks for diligently including the citation. But this secondary source is like a nail in the coffin. The author says, "... certainly impressive whether it is an all-time record for Idaho or not." In other words, he's only considering Idaho, and even then he doesn't know if it's a record. The title of this Wikipedia article is "List of world records in chess." It isn't "List of Idaho records in chess." And it isn't "List of things that might be records in chess." This secondary source is telling us in plain language that this record isn't ready for prime time. Sorry.
Let me add a personal note. I am an FM, and I appreciate what it took for Lucky to become an FM. If I were in Lucky's shoes right now, I would be mildly amused to see this "record" fussed over in NW chess, but I would be acutely embarrassed to see it presented in Wikipedia, next to the discussion of Steinitz and Fischer. May I respectfully suggest that you let Lucky's FM title speak for itself. Bruce leverett (talk) 05:40, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
OK, so if a runner happens to break the Idaho record of sprinting, in Idaho, and it happens to also be the world record at the same time, then should be not count it as a world record, because it happened in Idaho? If 25 consecutive wins is the previous world record, and someone has now won 36 consecutive tournament games, in Idaho, then shouldn't that still be the new world's record? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teknews (talk • contribs) 06:10, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
I just read an independent press release on this consecutive record. Not only is the press release a third source, but it looks like it confirms the fact that FM Lucky's 36 game winning streak is indeed a world record. Here is the link to the press release: https://www.prlog.org/12609286-idaho-chess-master-state-champion-breaks-world-record.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.19.144.61 (talk) 01:06, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
That's a published press release, which verifies all of the facts. That's three sources now, and more articles are coming out by other organizations. What do you recommend now, MaxBrowne? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.19.144.61 (talk) 01:50, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
What about the other two sources, US Chess Federation, and North West Chess Magazine? Are they not reliable sources? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.19.144.61 (talk) 03:00, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
You are misrepresenting FM Lucky's tournament record. You may be looking at 1 game in a blitz tournament he won, from the hundred or so blitz tournament games he won. This category deals with only classical wins, and not blitz tournament wins. Although most of his opponents were either a master, several experts, and experienced strong→tournament players. 8 of his opponents were former state champions. That is true that they were not all masters though. His record fit perfectly into the original category of consecutive wins (non-master). The problem now, is that by removing the category of consecutive wins, and by changing the category for Steinitz (moving him from consecutive wins to wins against masters) people may start to question the credibility of this Wikipedia page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:100E:B149:52D8:9EE:E73C:AB40:6919 (talk) 16:39, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for admitting your mistake, in looking at FM Lucky's blitz tournament wins, instead of his classical wins. Other posters have made similar mistakes, but failed to admit to them like you did. Regarding your other point about his weakest opponents: Out of his 36 consecutive wins, his weakest opponents would be similar to Fischers weakest opponents, within 100-200 points. In Fischer's 1963 streak, he played some low rated player in the first couple of rounds of the Western Open in Bay City. Some of his opponents were B & A players, similar in strength to FM Lucky's weaker opponents. Also, you mention that FM Lucky was playing opponents weaker than himself. The same thing can be said for Fischer, in 1963-1965 streak. Given the fact that Fischer was clearly the strongest player in the country, then by definition, everyone he played was weaker than himself. His opponents at both the Western Open, and the New York Open, were way weaker than Fischer. Certainly both FM Lucky, and GM Fischer were favored to win in every game that they played. However, statistically, and mathematically, both Fischer and FM Lucky were definitely NOT favored to win ever single game, in a winning streak. This may be the point that you were missing. The odds of an FM winning all 36 tournament games in a row, versus even average tournament player, is something like a 2% chance. If you crunch the numbers, and do the math, then you'll see what a statistical rarity it is to win that many games in a row, even when you're a favorite in any game. Regarding your other point about having FM Lucky being included on Wikipedia: You make a good point there, and FM Lucky himself doesn't even care about such things. He's a successful businessman, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't spend any time thinking about such things. Some of his fans wanted to see him included in Wikipedia, because they thought it would be a good boost for Idaho chess. Although now that the category of consecutive winning streak has been removed, it is now all a moot point. Even I am not recommending his inclusion on the Wikipedia list, but am only following up on your message that you sent to me. I would say it's closed case, and the issue is done. You are correct that FM Lucky is an insignificant figure in the chess world, and should be kept off of the records list. Neither he, nor I, nor anybody else really cares at this point. I wish you luck, and do hope that this records page doesn't lose too much credibility, after all of the category changes, and the switching around of Steinitz & Fischer into new categories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.92.16.70 (talk) 21:49, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
Nobody has been talking about press releases for a long time, as they have moved on to other issues. There's no reason to be insulted, unless one has elevated Fischer to a god like status. I can assure you that Fischer was not a god. Let's look at the actual record though. In looking at Fischer's streak in 1963, in round 1 of the New York Open, his opponent was Ray Oster, rated between 1700 to 1800. In round 2, his opponent was Winthrop Beach, rated somewhere around 2050. In round 3, Fischer was playing John Richman, rated around 2050 to 2150. This is all according to the website link: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1044175&kpage=5 In round 6, Fischer was playing Benjamin Greenwald, rated 2179. Some of the other ratings are uncertain. Given the fact that Fischer's rating in 1963 was 2685, you have a rating difference of 885 rating points in round one, a rating difference of 635 rating points in round 2, a rating difference of 535 points in round 3, and a rating difference of 506 points in round 6. Many of Fischer's other rounds in his streak probably had huge rating differences between 200 and 400 points in each of those rounds. Possibly in a few of his games his opponents may have been rated 100 points lower than himself. Even in the US Championship, Fischer played people like Saidy, Sherwin, Steinmeyer, and Berliner. They were masters, but were all rated hundreds of points below Fischer. That's why after Fischer won the US Championship in 1963, Bent Larsen gave a very famous quote, and said "Fischer won the US Championship, because he was playing against Children" (possibly paraphrased slightly). Now, of course they were they were all strong players. But in Larsens view, a 2600 playing against a 2300 is like playing against a child. Now, this is relevant because if someone is going to complain about a few games with a 400 point differential, then they need to take a closer look at the rating differences in many of Fischer's games. Anyhow, since you have changed the categories all around, these discussion now are all academic at this stage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.19.144.61 (talk) 03:03, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
Concerning this edit: [11]
I don't see how Yifan's resignation after five moves can be called a record. The source says so, but it's plainly untrue, since Oscar Panno resigned after one move against Fischer and he is also a grandmaster. Earlier in the section there's also a 3-move game 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 c6 3. e3?? Qa5+ White resigns. Pinging @Dominus: since it's his / her edit. Banedon (talk) 23:15, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
I think we are skating on very thin ice with Z. Đorđević–M. Kovačević. For one thing, a "Candidate Master" is not a "Master". And, are they even CM's? The real point is that it would be next to impossible to substantiate or refute the claim that this game is a record, if we had to consider all games played at the level of these two gentlemen, because there are just too many such games, and many of them are played in local clubs or other circumstances where they cannot be verified, etc. Bruce leverett (talk) 15:21, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
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Currently this section includes the following text:
"José Raúl Capablanca went eight years without a loss (1916 to 1924, including his World Chess Championship 1921 victory over Emanuel Lasker), but this was "only" 63 games."
Assuming that this record is only there because of duration, then Steinitz must have done better - after all, he recorded 25 consecutive wins over 9 years, which means he went 9 years without a loss. On checking chessgames.com this totals 32 games. I'm going to make the edit, but if someone disagrees feel free to revert. Banedon (talk) 05:47, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
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This seems to me a fairly meaningless figure. It seems to have been calculated in various ways; the current FIDE (and universal? it seems not) way is : tournament performance rating for a perfect rating = average FIDE rating of opponents + 800. Using average opponent rating instead, in the case of perfect scores, would make a lot more sense. 110.20.157.59 (talk) 02:37, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
Some more tournaments with 5 world-champions (non-exhaustive list, by quick clicking):
- http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=55428 Kramnik, Anand, Carlsen, Topalov, and Ponomariov
- http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=90344 Kasparov, Karpov, Smyslov, Khalifman, Tal
There can be more, there were various tournaments Kramnik, Anand, and Carlsen played together, and it's likely some of them had also somebody from Topalov/Ponomariov/Kasmidzhanov/Khalifman pool. Or maybe even Karpov or Kasparov.
Another interesting case:
- http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=39543 had 4/7 - four world champions (Kramnik, Anand, Kasparov, Ponomiariov) among 7 players, more than 50% participants with a title. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mekkk (talk • contribs) 11:47, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Does anybody have the databases to actually verify Tiviakov and/or Lalic's claims to 100+ game unbeaten streaks? I believe them but it would be nice to have confirmation.
I think it would be good to rewrite this section to properly reflect the doubtfulness that this list of streaks is in any way exhaustive. I very much doubt anybody has pored through chess history enough to say with any certainty that we haven't missed many long streaks (for instance, a recent Chessbase article mentions Ulf Andersson as another claimant to a very long streak). 68.168.186.4 (talk) 07:18, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Is it time to drop the reference to Ding Liren's 100-game streak now that he has been decisively overtaken by Carlsen?
Also, I assume that if Carlsen gets to 110+ unbeaten games we'll lose all reference to Lalic/Tiviakov's lesser achievements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by A153829 (talk • contribs) 17:52, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
In the chess context, saying "Carlsen drew Aronian" means Carlsen was paired with Aronian in a Swiss tournament. You "draw" a game, you "draw with" or "draw against" a player. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 18:10, 21 October 2019 (UTC) Also "consistency" is not particularly important. If something can be said more than one way in English, there is no particular reason why it must be said in the same way throughout an article, let alone throughout wikipedia. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 00:46, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
If Wesley So's performances stated elsewhere on the page are correct, the numbers should make it to that list. But since obviously nobody maintains that list, it should be checked by somebody who knows, and who can decide whether rapid/blitz should be part of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.90.163.192 (talk) 17:13, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
This section is confusing. The mentioned players did not really beat "undisputed world champions" they beat players who would at some later point become world champions. E.g. Korchnoi beat Carlsen in 2004, when Carlsen had just turned 14 with an ELO well below 2600... --2001:464A:35F0:0:C887:D6DD:491F:6570 (talk) 21:26, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
Under "Longest unbeaten streak", I do not see the point of this sentence, "Wilhelm Steinitz went 9 years without a loss (including his 25 consecutive win streak mentioned above), but the streak included only 32 games." If we are going to mention years without a loss, the winner would be Fischer's 20 years 1972-1992! But Fischer temporarily retired, you say? So did Steinitz, pretty well. And if we want to mention a streak in time for an active player, the winner would probably Capablanca's 8 years undefeated 1916-1924 (roughly 65 games). Anyway, without a reliable source saying Steinitz is the record holder by some definition, I think it should be deleted. Adpete (talk) 09:11, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
Do we know for sure that this is a record? Sorry but it looks like original research to me. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 10:17, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
Grischuk had a 72-minute think yesterday in a the candidates tournament, a top level game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgW9ez5LTX8 They asked if this was his longest think. I think we need a longest think record. Obviously we don't want to give it to anyone who tried to get listed here but who sucks. Perhaps limited to games that really matter somehow.
The article currently lists Awonder Liang, but the source it is citing itself states that this is the record for "the youngest chess player in the United States to have beaten a Grand Master in a tournament game of chess". I believe, David Howell (he told this today while commentating) is the youngest: [1] I will find some more sources to see if anyone else has broken that record, otherwise I will update the article. But, please make sure while adding any records that those are for the world, and not specific to any country
References
Please stop referring to Lalić’s 155 game streak as ‘unconfirmed’—it has long been confirmed and I have now also added a FIDE source (his official FIDE ratings profile) which shows that he had a 155 game streak without losses, beginning in 2010. The edition war in that section needs to end; if you disagree, at least write your opinion here first. Mazedriver (talk) 18:39, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
This entry refers to a club tournament, in which every club player who entered would have to play two games with every other player (Neue Berliner Schachzeitung, v. 2 (1865), p. 117). On 1865-03-10 22 members are reported to have entered, and already in the following issue Neumann is reported to have won first prize because he won all 34 games that he had to play (p. 155): some players have obviously dropped out already. (2nd and 3rd prize winners are announced in later issues, but with no information about how many games they played: it probably is less than Neumann, as one of the players that dropped out (Schulten) was reported to have played only three games, two of which were against Neumann.
No complete record seems to exist: we don't know if games actually were played, or if the weakest club players may have conceded their games. (We know that draws didn't count, and had to be replayed) Nor do we know anything about handicap arrangements. Neumann was considered to be the strongest player of the club: it would be odd if weaker club players had to meet him on equal terms.
Thus, while Neumann won all his games, we don't know as much of the circumstances as would would like to. The term 'tournament' seems to carry more connotations of regular schedule, all really meeting all, etc., and a fairly level playing field, some of which are known to not have been present. Athulin (talk) 09:30, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
"In 2005, Reykjavík, Iceland, with eight grandmasters (Jón L. Árnason, Jóhann Hjartarson, Margeir Pétursson, Friðrik Ólafsson, Thröstur Thórhallsson, Helgi Grétarsson, Hannes Stefánsson, and Bobby Fischer) had a higher percentage of resident grandmasters per capita than any other city worldwide; the city of 114,000 had, therefore, one grandmaster per 14,000 residents." The cited website claims that Be'er Sheva, Israel takes that title. Please change the citation. MistakeReporter (talk) 00:53, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
There're clearly quite a few perfect tournament scores, so I think there should be some additional notability to be included here. Fischer's perfect scores at the US Open is clearly notable for example (because it led to a Bobby Fischer prize for anyone who repeats the feat), but I think many of the others can be removed. Banedon (talk) 04:19, 4 January 2024 (UTC)