Robert Logan (naval architect) was one of the Engineering and technology good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result October 27, 2020 Good article nominee Listed February 26, 2023 Good article reassessment Delisted
	A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on July 9, 2017. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the naval architect Robert Logan designed the first steel train ferry?
Current status: Delisted good article

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Robert Logan (naval architect)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MWright96 (talk · contribs) 15:28, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Am reviewing for the GAN October 2020 Backlog Drive. MWright96 (talk) 15:28, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Images

• Image 3 Caption: "Sinking of Pere Marquette #18 in 1910 and coming to the rescue is Pere Marquette #17 in the background." - hashes are discouraged per MOS:HASH

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:24, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

• "His first ones were passenger cruise excursion boats. He later constructed freighter ships for the American Shipbuilding Company that carried railroad trains across Lake Michigan." - consider merging these two sentences together

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:32, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "He designed the world's first steel train ferry. This was followed by several more Logan boats that ultimately developed into the world's largest carferry fleet that operated out of Ludington, Michigan." - Logan designed the world's first first steel train ferry, followed by

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:32, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

• "Logan was born in Glasgow, Scotland, March 14, 1861." - Scotland, on March 14, 1861.

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:54, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Who were Logan's parents and did he have any siblings?

•  Done Did extensive research on this, however none of the sources say.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:24, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mid life and career

• "Logan became chief draftsman for the shipbuilding firm of Mansell and Aiken in Glasgow after college graduation." - after graduating from college.

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:35, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "Logan immigrated to Canada in June 1888" - think emigrated is meant here

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:35, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "One of the steamships he was involved with on its construction was the SS Manitoba built in 1888–89." - he was involved in constructing was the SS Manitoba from 1888 to 1889.

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:53, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "This passenger steel ship was 320-foot (98 m) long and one of the first large metal ones built in Canada." - 320 feet (98 m) long and one of the first large metal vessels to be constructed in Canada.

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:53, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Wikilink Lake Michigan on the first mention only

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:53, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "The S S City of Saginaw 31 (1929) and the S S City of Flint 32 (1930) as part of the fleet were there also on that date as sisterships added later after Logan's death." - this sentence could be rewritten to make it more understandable

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:53, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "These later vessels constructed were patterned after his boat designs." - These subsequent vessels that were constructed were patterned after his boat designs.

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:53, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Logan boats

• All the measurements such as pounds, feet, gross tons, horsepower ahd miles per hour should be inserted into the convert template

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:14, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "ordered in the late nineteenth century train transport carferries to be constructed" - the construction of train transport carferries

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 15:04, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Lake Michigan doesn't need to be linked here

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 15:04, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "The name change which involved both the name with its number wasn't actually done until 1924." - the word indicated in bold should be written out as was not to avoid violating MOS:CONTRACTION

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 15:04, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "The system started with the number 15. At that time there was already an order for a new all-steel ferry that was placed with Logan in 1895. This boat while in construction had been referred to as the No. 15 as it was the first in a series of boats designed by Logan and the new numbering system started with 15." - there is no need to mention the beginning of the new numbering system twice when it has already been mentioned in the previous paragraph

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "This steamship was an upgraded version from the previous Logan boat. The steel craft was 338 feet long, 56 feet wide, and had a depth of 19.5 feet to the main deck." - these two sentences are better off merged together

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "This steamship was constructed with extra strength metal parts and lavish luxury accommodations. It had triple expansion engines powered by four boilers like those on the modern Scottish ships at the time"- same query as above

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "The transport ship could carry thirty standard railroad freight cars on its four-track internal platform. It had luxury passenger staterooms with better facilities than the first Logan launch." - consider merging these two sentences

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Wikilink boiler to the relevant article

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "per square inch of steam pressure giving 2,300 horsepower." - producing

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "She was christened by Miss Beatrice Logan," - don't use the honorary prefix Miss per MOS:MISS

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "the daughter of Robert Logan, the design engineer of the all-steel vessel." - who was the design engineer of the all-steel vessel.

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "Flint & Pere Marquette Railway superintendent William L. Mercereau authorized Logan's all steel transport cost of $400,000." - the text in bold should be written out in its acyronyms

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:52, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "The entire hull had inch thick steel shell plates. They were doubled for 75 feet from the keel to a line three feet above the water line as extra protection against ice." - I think these two sentences should be merged as one

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:52, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "It was claimed to be one of the fastest boats on Lake Michigan." - claimed by whom?

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:52, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "The first No. 18 sank to the bottom of Lake Michigan with 31 people perishing out of its 64 crew members." - 31 out of the 64 crew members dying. per MOS:EUPHEMISM

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:52, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "A second No. 18 was built in 1911." - second No. 18 ferry was

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:52, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life

• "He married a Miss Eliza Boyd in Scotland in 1883." - married Eliza Boyd in Scotland in 1883.

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:01, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "At the time of his death he was survived by three daughters; Mr. B. R. Pearse, Mrs. Alton A. Smith, and Mrs. H. E. Gaines." - Again the honorary prefixes of Mr. and Mrs. should not be used

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:01, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "At the time of his death he was survived by three daughters;" - the semi-colon is better off replaced by a comma

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:01, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "Logan also had two sisters living at the time in Scotland." - He had two sisters residing in Scotland at that time.

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:01, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

• It should be mentioned that References 1, 5, 6, 7, 9, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 and 23 should all include Newspapers.com in the via= field

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:19, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• The title of Reference 6 and the page number are incorrect and the author is stated but missing from the template

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:49, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• References 8 and 10 are missing the page numbers

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:49, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Reference 11 looks like it is missing the publication date

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:49, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Reference 12 title: "This and That from History" - the word in bold should be 'n'" per source

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:49, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Reference 21's page number is 6A not 7

•  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:49, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Will put the review on hold to allow the nominator to address or query the suggestions raised above. MWright96 (talk) 18:19, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

•  Working Thanks for review. Will be addressing these over the next few days. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:50, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• @MWright96: All issues have been addressed. Can you take another look. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:49, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• @Doug Coldwell: Now promoting to GA class. MWright96 (talk) 12:46, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer should have given closer attention to the items in §Sources. For example, this one. I note these issues:

• The short-form citation calls out page 309; the google url in the citation links to someplace in the source that is labeled as page 30.
• It is presumed that the citation is to Logan's obituary where no author is named so |last=Naval Architects is improper
• The title of the source is Transactions of The Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers 1918 not Society of Naval Architects which is the publisher

So, for the example, it would be better to write:

((cite book |section=Obituaries |title=Transactions of The Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers 1918 |url=https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101050820032&view=1up&seq=353|date=1919 |location=New York |publisher=Society of Naval Architects |page=309 |ref=((sfnref|Naval Architects|1919))))

"Obituaries". Transactions of The Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers 1918. New York: Society of Naval Architects. 1919. p. 309.

It took me about an hour to noodle all this out. The purpose of citations is to point readers to the source that supports the en.wiki article; not to send them on a treasure hunt.

I haven't looked closely but the other two citations in §Sources need similar revision.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:41, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is part of Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/20210315 and the Good article (GA) drive to reassess and potentially delist over 200 GAs that might contain copyright and other problems. An AN discussion closed with consensus to delist this group of articles en masse, unless a reviewer opens an independent review and can vouch for/verify content of all sources. Please review Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/February 2023 for further information about the GA status of this article, the timeline and process for delisting, and suggestions for improvements. Questions or comments can be made at the project talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:36, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]