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I agree with VorangorTheDemon. But another puzzling thing is the rumors that the Original Super Saiyan was the first legendary super saiyan. The first (original and legendary) Super Saiyan was Bardock, when he fought Chilled, Frieza's ancestor. This would mean Bardock is the Original Super Saiyan, and yet the first Legendary Super Saiyan. That means he also had a weak power level. According to Son Gohan's journal, Goku's power level was 50 times his regular power level, so it was 6,400,000. Yet Bardock (in regular form) had a power level of 10,000 and yet his power level in Super Saiyan was 30,000 short of being equivalent to Frieza's power level on Namek, so it was 500,000. That means that if Bardock is the "legendary super saiyan", then how is Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan? Norris (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:34, 28 February 2012 (UTC).
Wouldn't it be worth mentioning how easily Kid Trunks, and Kid Goten managed to achieve super saiyan? I'm notexplicity explained in the anime other than Gohan being surprised by his younger brother transforming so easily, and Goten explaining that he thought everyone could do it. Could this be because they are sons of saiyans who had transformed before their conception? Grimmie (talk) 12:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I agree, that "dads were Super Saiyan when they were conceived" is just fan speculation, and do I believe that? Well, maybe a little bit, but that couldn't have been the total reason. They got some Super Saiyan genes, but the only reasonable reason is that they just happened to pull it off using the SSJ genes. Toriyama probably thought, "Well, every other Saiyan or half-Saiyan can go Super Saiyan, so I'll just make Goten & Kid Trunks do it too."
In regards to whether Vegeta was able to become Super Saiyan when he concieved trunks or not (I'm talking about both timelines), In the Main Timeline, the Manga doesn't explicitly state how and when he got his Super Saiyan form, (though Vegeta implied that it had to due with being pure evil), but the Anime seems to hint that Vegeta became a SSJ around the time when he was searching for Goku in the year between the Frieza Saga and Trunks Saga.), and in regards to Trunk's/Cell's timeline, I don't know if this was in the Manga, but the Anime seemed to hint that Vegeta also became a Super Saiyan in that Timeline as well (due to the fact that both the opening Narration of the Trunks special AND Future Trunk's recollection of the apocalyptic future in the episode "Ghosts from Tomorrow", so I can't say that it was because of Vegeta being an SSJ when Kid Trunks was concieved, whileas he wasn't an SSJ when Future Trunks was concieved due to that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.223.196 (talk) 00:53, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Vegeta became a Super Saiyan not too long before the androids appeared. How could you possibly think he was a Super Saiyan between the Frieze and Trunks saga? Did you not see how obssessed with it he was? How much he talked about finding that power one day, how he mentioned to Goku that during their three year training he would achieve this? When Vegeta tells us how he achieved this before fighting #19 you can see he's wearing his recently updated saiyan armour in the flashback, which he didn't have before the android saga. 203.114.164.219 (talk) 09:13, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Sigh, and yet, at least in the Anime, he first transformed into one IN SPACE, where the only way he could have done it was during the Garlic Jr. Saga, since, 1. He stole the ship in the anime once, and I don't think Bulma or Dr. Briefs would allow him to pull off such a stint again, and 2. the Ship (or at least one of them) was destroyed by Vegeta when he took his training a bit too far (and he was hospitalized as a result.). THAT'S what I meant by that.
And even IF it was just before the Androids saga rather than between the Frieza and Trunks Saga, it was proven in both Future Trunk's flashback of "Ghosts of the Future" AND the opening scene of "the History of trunks" that Vegeta also became a SSJ in his/cell's timeline (Ironically, those same scenes also depicted his death at the hands of the Androids).
Weedle_McHairybug —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.223.196 (talk) 12:06, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
The structure of this article is in question. You can help reach a consensus by voting here. UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 11:20, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm not entirely convinced that all the info regarding the Legendary Super Saiyan is accurate. I don't think it's proven that the chi increases as battle continues, and I can't find reference supporting the claim that it does. I also can't find any evidence to support the fact that the form has no chi consumption. I've attempted to edit it several times to where it doesn't make those claims, but someone keeps reverting my edits. Just stating the movies or what Daizenshuu it's in isn't enough, we need to site the exact page or exact original Japanese movie quote. Otherwise it's WP:OR --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 18:22, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
In the SSJ4 section it mentions that Toriyama drew his own version of the form and included it in a DVD set. I think it would be interesting to see this and/or have it in the article, are there any pictures available? - Norse Am Legend (talk) 01:46, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Has that been confirmed? -Kazi22 Talk 29 January 2008
In my opinion, this is kaioken. I saw this first on the first duel between Son Goku and Vegeta when Vegeta went to earth. Also, I think the reason of the yellow aura is because of using two times kaioken which haves the equivalent body of a Super Saiyan 2nd Grade. This needs confirmation though so I do not know if this is right yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dairyll (talk • contribs) 10:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Super Saiyan never appeared in the series. That filler episode during the Other World Torunament Saga, that was just Goku in his base form, just powered-up, not even Super Saiyan or Super Kaio-ken or anything else. Oh, and Kaio-ken x2 - that never had even a spark of yellow. The first time we ever saw a bit of yellow in a Kaio-ken form was when Goku powered up to Kaio-ken against Commander Ginyu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Super Vegetto (talk • contribs) 12:19, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Hey, I was just looking up random resaerch to look up, and come to find that SS4 is not on here! I doubt anyone has any objection to even saying that SS4, while it may not have been in the manga (I'm not sure on that, I've never actually read the manga's, but I don't know if it is in there or not), it was at least in the American anime. I would just add it myself, but I'm new to this and it would most likely be taken down due to lack of references on my part. Just my opinion. --TriCheeseSorrow (talk) 02:51, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
The magazine I was talking about was Beckett Collector DBZ, volume 4 number 7, page 14. I quote, "...This is even not technically Super-Saiyan 4 per say, rather this is actually what would be called Legendary (True) Super-Saiyan 2. In other words, it is not a form that comes after the "normal" Super Saiyan 3 we saw in Dragon Ball Z. Instead it follows Legendary Super-Saiyan, (the Golden Monkey also known as the REAL Super-Saiyan form according to the anime)...". The article was written by Greg Werner and this particular issue was the July 2003 edition. Also, where did all of the pictures on this site go? It looks so naked and unexciting without them.--68.186.217.203 (talk) 07:12, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
I have an argument
I submit that while originally Vegeta may have utilized an inefficient form of Super Saiyan, by the Majin Buu Saga, he gained complete mastery of the form (he did transform into SS2, afterall) and so should be included in the list of confirmed users of Full Power Super Saiyan. Anonymous, well-meaning fan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.26.97 (talk) 00:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I also agree that it is never stated that Vegeta went Full Power SSJ, although there is some speculation about him having maintained it in the Majin Buu Saga. However, with the amount of training that he did, it is not impossible.
I have a arguement involving vegeta as well, Vegeta uses the false super saiyan in the first saga —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.200.50.171 (talk) 23:33, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Vegeta never used the False Super Saiyan in the first saga, which was the Saiyan Saga. He wasn't even close to going False Super Saiyan, and anyway, he was totally outmatched by Goku in his Kaio-ken x3 form. The only person who ever went False Super Saiyan was Goku in the Lord Slug movie.
When you think about it, Vegeta never went Full Power SSJ, although there is some speculation about it. I mean, when he was training with Trunks in the gravity room at 150 g, he was a Super Saiyan, and he seemed to handle it pretty well. But afterwards, during the World Martials Arts tournament, he never even displayed the ability to become a Full Power SSJ, not like Goku and Gohan anyway, because they were constantly in Super Saiyan form non-stop (until Goku died). Personally, with all the training that he did and his ability to even become a Super Saiyan 2 (Goku & Gohan were the only ones other than Vegeta to get to SSJ2, they were Full Power SSJs), I think he'd have the motivation and commitment to become a Full Power SSJ. But that's just my opinion. Son Gohan (talk) 16:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
The Dragonball GT Perfect File suggests females can transform, and also states Pan had the potential. The latter does contradict Toriyama's statement that Pan's blood is too diluted, but not whether or not females with at least half saiyan blood can or cannot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.210.32.221 (talk) 17:03, March 13, 2008
The reason why I erased the forms is because this is an article about the Super Saiyan, not a guide, therefore there is no reason to point out the different physical traits of every Super Saiyan form. We need to talk more about the evolution of the concept from OOU instead of how each form looks and is achieved in the series. There's also a reason why there's a box now at the top of the page that states that there's alot of unimportant information regarding this subject. Arguments? --VorangorTheDemon (talk) 11:47, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, the lack of description is what turned me off about the article as well, so I added that Gotenks too achieved Super Saiyan 3 and how draining it was for Goku, please do not delete since I tried to keep it at minimum length whenever possible, as with the Super Saiyan advanced grades descriptions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.153.93.123 (talk) 08:17, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure we're able to get this section filled up. Removing it won't help it's case. Any ideas? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 03:50, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
The Daizenshuu have already revealed that the first SSJ form has 50 times the ki or power level of the base form, but now, what's been going around is that the Official Super Exciting Guide has revealed that SSJ2 has two times the strength of the SSJ form and that SSJ3 has four times the strength of the SSJ2 form. Shouldn't this info be verified, and if so, included in the article? Mekhatronic
There is no need for a Saiyan page and a Super Saiyan page. They should be merged together. Does anyone agree? A lot of Dragon Ball pages are being merged so this should be, too. DBZfan29 (talk) 17:36, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
I don't know. Super Saiyan has become at least a little bit notable. Katsura Hoshino, author of D.Gray-man, has said that the main protagonist of that series has hair of the same style as a Super Saiyan. On the other hand, one source does not account for notability as pertaining to wikipedia. I have no strong feelings either way, and am willing to abide by whatever consensus comes out, provided that it is not a full on redirect to both pages, as a simple merge into one or the other might just be what is needed.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Sasuke9031 (talk • contribs) 01:12, September 4, 2009
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |