Good articleWilbur Wood has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 28, 2021Good article nomineeNot listed
June 6, 2021Good article nomineeListed
Current status: Good article

Removed items[edit]

I removed this item that was tacked onto the paragraph about Wood's doubleheader start. Wood did start two consecutive games in 1976, but like the others mentioned below, these were due to flukes of scheduling (in this case, several rainouts) and had nothing to do with his endurance, which was the point of the paragraph.

I also removed the parenthetical comment on this item. Wood did not start a "significant number" of times in 1968. He started twice.

BlongerBros 18:26, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Wilbur Wood/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kingsif (talk · contribs) 15:35, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Hi, I'm Kingsif, and I'll be doing this review. This is an automated message that helps keep the bot updating the nominated article's talkpage working and allows me to say hi. Feel free to reach out and, if you think the review has gone well, I have some open GA nominations that you could (but are under no obligation to) look at. Kingsif (talk) 15:35, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Lead

  • Would they? It says he gained a record in X year, and you can expand in the body of the article. It seems too much detail for the lead. Kingsif (talk) 04:21, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • According to WP:LEDE: "The lead is the first thing most people will read upon arriving at an article, and may be the only portion of the article that they read." If this is not mentioned, those people will erroneously assume Wood still holds the record. I'm not taking this info out of the lead. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 21:01, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Except this is a direct quotation. We have to know where is it coming from. Kingsif (talk) 04:21, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • According to WP:LEDE, "The necessity for citations in a lead should be determined on a case-by-case basis by editorial consensus. Complex, current, or controversial subjects may require many citations; others, few or none. The presence of citations in the introduction is neither required in every article nor prohibited in any article." As a result, I added the cite. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 11:27, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "You can say 'Well it is' all you want, but I have shown through argument and example that it is not too long. I'm not changing it. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 11:38, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Illustration

  • Images aren't required for GAs, but I agree that they look better with them, so I added a couple more. As long as you don't mind them not being of Wood. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 20:30, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright

Early life

  • The previous Wilbur mentioned, however - as I said - is not identified as Wood. I didn't suggest replacing "Young Wilbur" with "Wilbur", did I? Kingsif (talk) 04:23, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good point. So there are two "Woods" mentioned in the previous sentence, neither of which are this one. I think "Young Wilbur" is necessary to avoid possible misreading. I'm not changing it. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 11:11, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Overall

  • Fail: nominator refuses to cooperate with review process and has firmly indicated that they will not make edits which, in my understanding of the criteria, are needed to meet GA. In the spirit of this being a review, I will likely add more comments as suggestions for improvement, and indicate which I believe are requirements. But this isn't GA, and with the nominator's attitude, won't be any time soon. A damn shame for something that's been stifling so long. Kingsif (talk) 21:58, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am perfectly happy to make edits that improve the article. Your suggestions detracted from its quality. Looking forward to getting this looked at by someone who actually understands the GA criteria. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 22:55, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • You refuse to improve the lead. Nobody who understands the criteria will pass it. Kingsif (talk) 23:17, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Kingsif, Uninvolved editor here who was about to start a new review and wanted to see what the hang-up was in this one ... is your principal complaint really about the length of the lead section? Per MOS:LEADLENGTH, an article of 30,000+ characters (and this article is at 38,000ish) should have a lede of three to four paragraphs ... I see a lede here of four paragraphs. I can understand a quibble here and there about a detail, but a declaration that "well it is" too long when the MOS simply says something different strikes me as a rather strident, perhaps even unconstructive, conclusion. I'll take this over if you're really going to fail the article over that, but I'd encourage you to perhaps have another look. In my experience, Sanfranciscogiants17 is pretty easy to work with in GA review world, so I am rather disheartened to see this conclusion. Go Phightins! 21:06, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Go Phightins!: The lead was the complaint Sanfranciscogiants17 focused on and so I responded about it, but it was not the only one. Their responses to me, indicating at various points that they would simply refuse improvements, were more unconstructive. Now, of course, the lead is important - important enough to get its own criteria. Lots of reviewers do forget how important it is, just check for prose and accept it. But it's the first thing readers see, and while sometimes the only thing they need to bother with, it should be a small reflection of the article. A suitable length - and this article isn't long enough for more than a 3 paragraph lead in practice, if they're going to be long paragraphs as they were here, I promise you - a suitable overview of the article - which was met - but not too detailed - which also was not. I'm not going to put up with a user that has the attitude of a stroppy teenager getting a B (especially after handling recent complaints of other editors 'bullying' reviewers into passing sub-par articles, I don't have the mental strength to deal with the inevitable confrontation of someone who doesn't want to be critiqued), so have at it. Nor do I want to expend the energy going over and over each detail they seem to not understand the reason for needing, i.e. surname use. They value their opinions more than MOS, that seemed evident to me. I warn you not to pass this too easily, for the love of article improvement (what the GA process is, at its heart), and do a proper review - maybe the nominator will not be so kind to you when you do. It wasn't a quickfail, not a full review fail, but a judgement fail because, in the allotted time, this article would not meet criteria based on needing to fight the nominator the whole way. The lead, the last I saw it, was not satisfactory, and there are other points where improvement is required that were already getting pushback, too. Two weeks wouldn't cut it, so I planned to leave a full review for the nominator to look over and decide what to do with in their own time, but got an unpleasant response and saw it renominated in seconds. They don't want feedback, they want a pass. It's not a pass. Kingsif (talk) 21:48, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Kingsif, Fair enough. I'll take it over. Thanks. Go Phightins! 21:57, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Wilbur Wood/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Go Phightins! (talk · contribs) 21:52, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Sigh. It may take me a few days, but I'll work on this review. Go Phightins! 21:52, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
    A few areas could be smoothed out, and I'll try to point those out in a forthcoming prose review. Overall, though, these criteria are within striking distance.
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
    Draws on an impressive range of scholarly/journalistic sources, all of which are squarely reliable.
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    Going to see if there are any opportunities to condense because it is a tad long, though that is not, in itself, a problem from either a GA criteria perspective or an MOS perspective.
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
    Not seeing or anticipating any issues here, but I'll read for this when I do a prose review.
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
    No concerns here.
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    No concerns here. Could take or leave the ballpark photo, but that has no bearing on whether the article meets the GA criteria.
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

General comments from the outset

I've had a look at the first GA review and will draw on some of that here. I tend, initially, to try to group comments thematically rather than by section, which maybe isn't the easiest to follow, but it's how I tend to think? If it proves annoying, let me know and I can try to group them chronologically. I'll take a swing through the article at the end to comment on prose, but I try to focus on criteria-specific stuff first.

References

Starting here, but off the bat, I see no major concerns. Just a few suggestions (and note ref numbers refer to this version):

General shape of the article (i.e. focus, length, relative weight, etc.)
  • Maybe height and weight could be omitted? (Also, in any case, we probably should come up with a less jargony phrase than "was listed at XXX pounds" ... it's probably not obvious to folks that means on the team roster).
  • Entering the 1971 season, the White Sox had been attempting to trade Wood could probably be shortened to The White Sox tried to trade would before the 1971 season, but XXX".
  • This is more about prose than length, but I think this sentence During the year, pitching coach Johnny Sain suggested that he pitch with only two days' rest in between, since knuckleball specialists do not put as much stress on their arms as other pitchers. would read better as That season, Wood's pitching coach suggested that he pitch with only two days' rest between starts, since knuckleball specialists do not put as much stress on their arms as other pitchers.
  • He underwent months of rehabilitation, returning in April of 1977, though, as he put it, he was somewhat "gun-shy" upon his return.[1] After posting the worst earned run average among qualifying AL pitchers in 1978 (5.20), he retired. could probably be condensed to After months of rehabilitation, Wood remained "gun-shy" upon his return and posted the worst earned run average among qualifying AL pitchers in 1978 (5.20). He retired after the season. (One general comment is that there are a lot of long sentences that sometimes could be broken up to allow easier flow.)
Miscellaneous content comments
Overall thoughts as of 2 June 2021

General prose review

Lede
Early life
Professional career
Career statistics
Pitching style
Personal life

General comments

Passing

I am now comfortable this meets the GA criteria. Well done, as usual! Go Phightins! 22:06, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]