The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by BorgQueen (talk) 05:31, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Drama Shower

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Created by Lullabying (talk). Self-nominated at 21:29, 24 December 2022 (UTC).

I don't think that really solves my concerns either. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 18:40, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
How about a hook like this?
Cielquiparle (talk) 22:50, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
@Lullabying: I do think it would be better to do two hooks at once in this case, because otherwise it's DYK déjà vu...! How about you go ahead and work on the second article, and I'll go review someone else's DYK and donate the extra QPQ...? Cielquiparle (talk) 01:12, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
I think the only way ALT3 would work is if it was a double hook because otherwise it's a rather pedestrian proposal interestingness-wise. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:20, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
@Narutolovehinata5: Pedestrian to you, perhaps, but how often do you see the words "Mr. Unlucky Has No Choice But to Kiss!" on the main page of Wikipedia? And also, the way ALT3 is written, the phrase "Drama Shower" takes on a whole new meaning. But yes, it is better if you can click to find out what is up with Mr. Unlucky. Anyway @Lullabying: I've now finished a QPQ which I can donate to you, so let me know if you do decide to write the other article and want to use it! Cielquiparle (talk) 01:46, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
@Lullabying: Wow, that was fast! I have added a QPQ for you above, and altered ALT3 to bold and embed a link to the new page. @Narutolovehinata5: Could you please proceed with the second review? Cielquiparle (talk) 09:27, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
Mr. Unlucky is not yet linked in Drama Shower's article, and the hook fact there is lacking a referencing footnote (only an explanatory one). I'll approve ALT3 once that's done. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:10, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
Actually the citation issue is yet to be fixed since Drama Shower's discussion of the series still lacks a referencing footnote. Upon further reflection, I don't actually think ALT3 is that much good of a hook either since it's too reliant on the name of the show despite ostensibly being about Drama Shower. This is what I'd suggest: would it be possible to propose some solo hooks about Mr. Unlucky alone that don't involve Drama Shower? I checked Mr. Unlucky's article and I think there are parts there that may have more potential for hooks than Drama Shower's article. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:44, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
  • This is the nomination page for Drama Shower, though, and I do feel that there is potential for a hook from that article as well, and I personally don't feel it's right to withdraw the nomination based on your explanation. lullabying (talk) 05:48, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
I'm just no longer seeing any path forward for a hook about Drama Shower at this point, what I do see is potential for Mr. Unlucky. One possibility could be to close this nomination and start a new one for Mr. Unlucky, or we could just use this page, but in any case I don't think we can get a suitable hook out of Drama Shower anymore. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:28, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
  • I added the citation next to the line instead of just as the footnote. Can you elaborate by what you mean by a "suitable" hook? lullabying (talk) 10:30, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
  • Hello, unfortunately, I don't think you're being very fair to the hooks for this article and not giving this nomination a chance. Similar hooks to ALT3 have made it to DYK, such as the one I did for Template:Did you know nominations/Kakafukaka; I'm not sure why this one couldn't. lullabying (talk) 21:02, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
WP:OSE is not really a valid argument on DYK, and that particular nomination was done prior to the recent change to the DYK criterion implementing the need to intrigue non-specialist audiences. I've been trying to give the nomination a fair chance and in fact had I seen suitable suggestions I would have either brought them up or would have proposed hooks about them myself. I just simply don't think Drama Shower is going to work out for DYK, but that doesn't mean that Mr. Unlucky doesn't have a future on DYK and in fact I'd highly suggest you nominate it separately. For what it's worth, had I been the one to review Kakafukaka's nomination, I would have probably said something similar to what I've said here (meaning I would have declined that particular hook wording too). I should also note that even the reviewer for that nomination thought there were other more suitable options for a hook instead. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:19, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
  • Is it possible to get another person to review this? lullabying (talk) 02:39, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
Alright. Asking for a second opinion on the suitability of the article and hooks. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:43, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
I would also like to request another reviewer to consider ALT3 in particular, which could be a candidate for the "quirky" slot! Cielquiparle (talk) 17:11, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
lullabying, i think alt3 has potential, but it doesn't explain to me what drama shower actually is. also, i feel that the hook should have a different focus because i doubt many main page readers would be excited about the order in which the dramas were first aired. would this reworking be acceptable to you?

alt3a: ... that one-year-only programming block Drama Shower exclusively broadcasts live-action boys' love dramas, such as Mr. Unlucky Has No Choice But to Kiss!?

i think "and Senpai, This Can't Be Love!" could also be added to the hook if you think it is appropriate to do so, regardless of whether or not there was an article for the series. (by the way, is the title of episode 7 missing a "But to"?) dying (talk) 11:04, 17 January 2023 (UTC) [struck alt3a. dying (talk) 14:08, 22 January 2023 (UTC)]
I'm not sure I would approve of either ALT3 or ALT3a. To the extent that either pass the interestingness criterion (which I'm not sure about), it seems like advertising if we all we say is "limited-time TV programming block has shows!". theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 02:01, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
yeah, it was really hard trying to avoid sounding like an advertisement. what i actually found interesting was that yaoi has become popular enough that there is now a dedicated programming block for live-action yaoi dramas. here's a reworking that focuses on that.

alt3b: ... that boys' love series, such as Mr. Unlucky Has No Choice But to Kiss!, are being aired on late-night programming block Drama Shower as live-action dramas?

dying (talk) 09:21, 18 January 2023 (UTC) [struck alt3b. dying (talk) 14:08, 22 January 2023 (UTC)]
To be honest, ALT3b sounds even more like an advertisement than the earlier proposal. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:03, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
haha, oh wow. i guess i'm not good at this at all. dying (talk) 11:29, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
Me again, now with ALT3c, saying quirky is quirky and usually relies on plays on words, and that as I recall we recently ran "both Toyota and Pizza Hut have had commercials saying "Sheesh!"?"
this is brilliant, Cielquiparle! i don't even care that it doesn't explain what drama shower is; in fact, i think not explaining it helps its quirkiness. i think the "-?" template could be used for the ending punctuation, but otherwise, the hook seems pretty solid. alternatively, the '?' could be italicized so that the "!?" could represent an interrobang. (i have just discovered that the latter option appears to still technically conform to f3.) also, although the hook may seem like a description of a fictional world at first glance, it actually does "describe the real world in some way", satisfying c6.
has there been a full review of the second article yet? if not, i can provide one and, assuming i encounter no serious issues and lullabying is happy with alt3c, this should be good to go. dying (talk) 11:29, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
  • Sounds good to me! Thank you! lullabying (talk) 20:08, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
    • Narutolovehinata5, it looks like you may have been in the middle of evaluating the second article for a full review. if so, did you want to complete it? i don't want to accidentally step on your toes. dying (talk) 20:41, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
The hook goes that at the start of Drama Shower, Mr. Unlucky Has No Choice But to Kiss!?. Which is technically true but is also not exactly right either. Technically speaking, the second part is referring to the title of the series, not exactly that "Mr. Unlucky has no choice but to kiss". The fact isn't wrong, it's just worded in a way that it could interpreted to be slightly misleading. And I understand it's intended for the quirky slot, but from experience, hooks intended for quirky slots have sometimes been prone to inaccuracies, and that's something that I'd really want to avoid. I realize that this is being slightly pedantic, but given that it can be argued that the hook is either misleading or vague (in what context is the "No choice but to kiss" aspect at the "start" of Drama Shower?), I'd like to first hear some alternative suggestions first before saying we can go with it. Dying: Do you perhaps have any suggestions in mind that focus solely on Mr. Unlucky without mentioning Drama Shower? I'm still not convinced that Drama Shower is suitable for DYK. I repeat: I'm not totally opposed to ALT3c and I can accept it if there are absolutely no alternatives, but I'd really like to see some alternative options first before we decide to go with it. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:03, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
Pretty much. I'm worried that the hook is just vague enough to have multiple interpretations ("start of Drama Shower" could refer to the block actually starting, as in its first ever series, or merely Mr. Unlucky being the first one to broadcast on the block). As I mentioned earlier, I'm willing to approve ALT3c myself, I just wanted to see what the alternative options were. Also, I apologize for missing ALT4; I had been busy around that time and did not notice that it had been proposed. In any case, here's what I will do: I am approving both ALT3c and ALT4 and I will leave the decision on what hook to use to the promoter. However, in order to let a fresh set of eyes look at this, I'd prefer if the one promoting is someone who has yet to comment on the nomination. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:08, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
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