The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 17:23, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

William Carter (composer)

• ... that composer and conductor William Carter began a career as a professional organist at the age of nine? Source: "Mr. William Carter". The Musical Herald: 99. April 1, 1911. Found in the paragraph that begins "We will resume the story..." and in the sentence that starts "Master William Carter's own career..." This fact can also be found in other more contemporary sources requiring subscription access.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Little Girl in Blue

Created by 4meter4 (talk). Self-nominated at 16:13, 12 November 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/William Carter (composer); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Thank you for an interesting article, on fine sources, offline and subscription sources accepted AGF. I am not happy with the hook. It gives him no place in time and location. Many started young, but he did extraordinary things later, such as the biggest Handel festival in Canada at the time, and the first choir of the Royal Albert Hall. If you prefer the early start aspect alone, I'll approve it, but think we might miss a chance. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:38, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

What do you think, 4meter4? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:52, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

4meter4, have you seen the above? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 02:19, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

• Despite multiple pings and a talk-page notification, the nomination appears to have been abandoned: there has been no response even though 4meter4 has edited elsewhere since. I have posted to their talk page that the nomination is being marked for closure; a response here prior to actual closure can forestall same if action is being taken to address the hook issue raised by Gerda Arendt. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:51, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

  ... or I could approve it - preference of something thing trivial over a subject's achievements seems to be what DYK currently wants. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

• BlueMoonset In the hands of another reviewer this would have been approved in an initial review. The current hook is interesting (it’s hooky), verifiable, and the article should have been tic approved long ago. Gerda Arendt's objection to the hook was entirely subjective with Gerda wanting other content featured out of personal preference on her part. The argument that the hook fact isn’t interesting or unusual is spurious. Unlike what Gerda asserts, not many organists start working young in a primary organist post. They may study young and play for services for free without a paid post; or maybe in a part time paid sub position or as a part time second or third organist (usually these go to older teens at the earliest but more often to adults in their 20s or 30s in the early half of an organist career before they manage to get a lead organist job). This was not the case with Carter who got a job as a full time paid head organist (not a sub or minor second or third organist post as is typical in the majority of careers) at the age of nine without an adult supervisor. Most organists in the Anglican Church don't get a job like that until they are in their thirties and have labored for a decade or more as a sub-organist, or in a minor post as second or third organist. That is very unusual (I know of no other organist who began this young in a paid post without an adult organist above them) and interesting. I have written several biographies on organists and I can say with confidence that this is an unusual achievement. The fact that I didn't propose an alt hook when the current one is suitable is not a reason to decline a hook. I don't have it in me to make another hook; too many other things going on in real life right now.

On a side note, recent experiences with perfectly good articles and hooks being held up at DYK for nit-picking purposes have soured me on editing wikipedia and I may no longer continue contributing; at least not at DYK. Reviews I’ve experienced of late have become overly pedantic, are largely held up on subjective opinion rather than objective criteria, and have ultimately become obstructive to the bigger goal of DYK which it to encourage editors to improve the encyclopedia by creating content. Rather than encouraging further new content creation, it is having the opposite effect on this editor who has reached a level of frustration that makes continuing editing undesirable. And this is from a long time active contributor with 14 years of DYK participation.4meter4 (talk) 18:16, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

I remember having said that if you prefer the early start I'll approve it. So I do. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:59, 6 January 2024 (UTC)