Your racist rant at Talk:Trans woman was removed, per permitted talk page removal actions according to WP:TPO bullet 3. Thank you. Mathglot (talk) 09:56, 18 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

“Your racist rant at Talk:Trans woman was removed”.

What are you talking about? I pointed out the painfully obvious fact that so-called POCs are more prone to transphobia than whites and that this is a far more reasonable explanation for transgender POCs to experience discrimination than any nonsense about “the intersection of racism and transphobia”... and you pull out the typical mindless vacuous pseudo-argument of... “that’s racist”? Why are people like you in charge of that page? Why does your delusional putrid bs take precedence over others’?

Besides, considering the high probability that you’re an “intersectional feminist” who believes in the laughable idea that racism requires PAWAH STRACKCHOORZ, may I inform you that I’m technically a POC myself so maybe my “racist” rant wasn’t racist after all given that I lack the “institutional pawah”. Or maybe having a different opinion means that, by definition, I’m a right-wing white transphobic neo-Nazi? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.241.61.247 (talk) 08:23, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, I did not remove your comments, I merely came to your Talk page to let you know they had been removed. The term 'racist rant' was not my own, I was quoting the edit summary of the editor who removed your comments, although I agree with their characterization. I can see why my repeating that on your Talk page would annoy you; if you want me to strike the word from my post above, I will do so, but it won't alter my opinion of them.

Secondly, I've moved your comments here from my Talk page; there's a box at the top of my Talk page explaining about keeping conversations in one place so you don't have to jump back and forth in order to understand them, so if you'd like to comment further, please do so below.

Finally, the removal of you comments by the other editor was perfectly proper, per WP:NOTFORUM. Article talk pages are restricted to discussing how best to improve the article. There is no room on a Talk page for stating your opinions about what does, or doesn't play a role in transphobia, and where racism comes into the picture. If you want to do that, write a blog, or try some other forum, but Wikipedia is not the right place for that sort of comment. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 10:18, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think it’s pretty obvious what my suggestion was. Mentioning and explaining that the higher incidence of transphobia among POCs has little to do with racism. If any of you are truly interested in not only improving the already one-sided shitty article but also the perception of the trans-community, you would understand that. But given that you still believe my rant was “racist”, I just wonder why I even bother. And no, I don’t know the rules of Wikipedia, let alone how to conveniently add comments and given how broken and non-functional Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter notifications are, I just put it where I thought you’d see it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.241.61.247 (talk • contribs) 4:12, February 20, 2019 {UTC) (UTC)

That's understandable; there's quite a learning curve here, but you'll get the hang of it. Two important tips for discussing on Talk pages: end of all your comments with WP:FOURTILDES (~~~~), this translates into your signature and a timestamp. Secondly: the convention here is to indent to maintain clarity about who wrote what. Indenting is done with leading colons on each paragraph; see WP:THREAD for details about how to do this.

About the subject at hand: if we read you wrong, I apologize. Another tip, which no doubt contributed to your comment being removed: the article Talk pages are strictly for discussion of how to improve the article; the more concrete, the better (e.g., "In section A, let's add the following paragraph B, because reason C, and I have citations to reliable sources that support that.") Talk page comments that are merely discussions about the topic in general, or one's thoughts or opinions about it, are subject to collapsing or removal per WP:NOTFORUM and WP:TPO. (Sorry about all the rules links, but that, in fact, is how people justify their actions around here.) If you have a point to make about POC, try not to couch it in general terms, i.e, don't say what you believe, what the article gets wrong, etc etc; couch it in terms of how to improve it concretely: either by proposed removal (or change) of something that is not supported by reliable sources (note: not "that is inaccurate"), or by addition of something that should be there, is relevant, not disporportionate to the topic and length of the article, and that has solid references behind it. You're welcome to try your section on the Talk page again, but keep that in mind, as you do. Pinging @PeterTheFourth:. Hope this helps, Mathglot (talk) 17:44, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So first off, I actually am thankful for the lengthy and respectful explanation, but I still remain sick to the balls of how often the vacuous accusation of racism is brought up the moment someone dares to criticize minorities. And that’s what angers me above all. I know I’m extremely clumsy using this platform to leave messages and I don’t even know if you’ll get to read it. I also know Wikipedia has a billion rules to ensure quality. But anyway, I will take the guess that the writers of the article sincerely care about the issue of transwomen, how society perceived them, and how issues can be mitigated. If that really is so, then someone with better encyclopedic skills than me could at least add a couple of lines pointing out the several reasons why minority transgendered individuals are at higher risks of facing discrimination and not rely on the typical absurd assumption of so many intersectional feminists. I’m aware that this is perhaps a bad way to make suggestions according to the guidelines, but then again, I very rarely do them anyway. I’ve never even really edited an article outside of correcting very occasional grammar errors. But regardless, thanks again for the polite feedback in spite of my anger. I didn’t expect it at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.241.61.247 (talk • contribs) 09:07, February 22, 2019 (UTC)

You don’t need to have great encyclopedic skills, we all started with none; why not try it yourself? You could start on the Talk page again, saying what you want to do, something like: "I’m new here, and I’d like to add a couple of lines pointing out the several reasons why minority transgendered individuals are at higher risks of facing discrimination" (please skip the part about absurd assumptions) "...and I found a couple of good references that talk about it. Seeking feedback or tips or comments before I try it. ~~~~" and see what happens. Give it about four days for people to notice, and if no response, go ahead and try editing the article directly. If you’re unsure about taking that step, you could include the material you want to add to the article, on the talk page first instead, to provoke some concrete responses. That way, if there’s a legit problem with your material, instead of it being reverted out of the article, people (hopefully) will leave feedback about it on the talk page for you.

Please read WP:THREAD about indenting and signing your Talk page comments. And feel free to contact me directly by ((ping))ing me here, or writing on my Talk page. Cordially, Mathglot (talk) 10:42, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look at this discussion on the Talk page, which addresses pretty exactly the points you were making. Mathglot (talk) 11:22, 27 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]