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Wehwalt, July 30, 2014.
AfC submissions
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02:09:34, 18 July 2016 review of submission by NNcNannara

Why is the pseudo code and explanation on the main AVL page 'suitable' and this beautiful C# code with explanation 'unsuitable'.

As I pointed out to Roger, I have many more pages that I could add, but if this one doesn't make it, neither will they.

Clearly I am wasting my time with Wikipedia. I'll not waste any more time though.


Hello, Chris troutman. You have new messages at Pichpich's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the ((Talkback)) or ((Tb)) template.

December 12

Hello, Chris troutman. You have new messages at Pelotas's talk page.
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00:27:17, 8 February 2017 review of submission by Alsamrudo

Hey, I know that I have most likely been annoying you with me wanting you to check Draft:Cool Cat Saves the Kids, but I have got it all figured out now. I removed all the blog post and added that the CEO of FOX, Rupert Merdoch, reviewed the movie.

Help with Maritz, LLC draft

Greetings! On behalf of Maritz, LLC, I'm trying to update the company's Wikipedia article. I've submitted an edit request here and posted requests for help at WikiProject Companies, the Articles for Creation help desk, WikiProject United States, and the talk pages of a couple individual Wikipedia editors, but so far no one has responded to the edit request to add a corporate overview section and information about the company's current and former subsidiaries.

I've proposed text for the article here. I realize this is a proposed article expansion, and not an Articles for Creation submission, but this major addition to the article is similar to an Articles for Creation review, so I'm reaching out to a few Articles for Creation participants, including you, to see if someone is willing to review the proposed addition for accuracy and neutrality. Is this something you might be able to help with? If you are not interested, I understand, I'm just not sure where else to ask for help for the edit request I submitted over a month ago. Thanks! MadisonfromStanding (talk) 13:04, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@MadisonfromStanding: I'd like to state at the outset that I appreciate your honesty dealing with Wikipedia, making requests as you have. We get inundated with businesses trying to self-promote and it embitters us to commerce. That said, I took a look at your recommendations and I can't help because too much of what you're pushing is ad copy. It's undue coverage of things Maritz wants the public to see, not objective coverage. I don't think is a reliable source so I'd strike everything that those citations support. Instead, take a look at The Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Company. I had reviewed this for "good article" status and though I did not ultimately approve it, the material is based on sources mostly after the company folded. The article contains a fair amount of criticism, which the article about Maritz lacks. I think it's questionable if Maritz is even generally notable. Neutral changes to the article in question would have to be a matter of a sentence here or there, not adding entire paragraphs of propaganda. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:15, 20 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

17:21:52, 17 March 2017 review of submission by Hosseinfani

Hello, I've created an article about my prof. Dr. Ebrahim Bagheri( The article has not been approved by you since the person is not notable. I've read WP:PROF and the criteria items 2, 3, and 5 at least are satisfied and the respective citations are given. Also, the subject is selected as a Professional Engineers Ontario, so the item 1 is satisfied in WP:ANYBIO. The award is highly notable for at least it has a wiki page! The given websites as references are from IBM and IEEE Computer Society, two notable entities not only in wikipedia but also amongst computer science community. I could have listed all his publication in his domains of interest in the article in order to show that the subject has been influential in these specific domains in computer science. However, Google Scholar and DBLP, which I mentioned as reference, are two well-known computer science bibliography websites in this respect and list all his publications. The h-index and are two important citation metric to show the notability of an author. The subject's score with regard to these two metrics as shown in is 18 and 39 respectively. Plus, the number of citations is 1927. It is important to mention that the content of Google Scholar pages are generated by Google, not the scholar him/herself! So, I guess one can cite Google Scholar as a reference.

I know encyclopedia such as Wikipedia is not Facebook. But according to the notability criteria items the subject is notable acc. items 2,3, 5 on WP:PROF and item 1 on WP:ANYBIO as I mentioned. I would appreciate it if you help me with this article.

Cordially, Hossein Hosseinfani (talk) 17:27, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Hosseinfani: No, I think you're imagining notability. The subject does not meet any element of WP:PROF or ANYBIO. Being a member of a trade organization isn't notability. Being cited isn't notability. Some people will argue h-index during deletion discussions but the number itself is not proof of notability. You can resubmit your draft and take a chance on another reviewer but I have no interest in helping you. If Wikipedia wanted to have an article on this guy one of us would write it. Chris Troutman (talk) 15:49, 20 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Russian military deception

— Maile (talk) 12:05, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of List of fulfilled prophecies for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of fulfilled prophecies is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of fulfilled prophecies until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PaleoNeonate (talkcontribs) 04:33, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for March 22

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited United Red Army, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Springer (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 09:51, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please comment on Talk:Buffalo–Niagara Falls metropolitan area

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Buffalo–Niagara Falls metropolitan area. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Double Warning

Small administrative error. I warned this user: Lodalol (Talk) for their inappropriate edits and then you warned him immediately after for the same edits. Just thought I'd let you know. Thanks. -=Troop=- (talk) 20:32, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Trooper1005: I noticed. You reverted the vandalism but hadn't issued the warning at that point so I did, only to see that you beat me to it. The editor in question can benefit from two warnings. I could revert myself but I don't see good faith here. Thanks for letting me know. Chris Troutman (talk) 22:02, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your vigilance on behalf of the Wiki Community (diff). In any case, you seem appear a fairly active participant in AfD's. Any thoughts for the community's enlightenment here: User talk:Jimbo Wales#Suggested fix-?--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 00:12, 28 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In the spirit of WP:AGF, I think you need to drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass. You should consider yourself unwelcome on my talk page. Chris Troutman (talk) 00:23, 28 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please comment on Talk:Manassas, Virginia

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Manassas, Virginia. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

02:55:27, 31 March 2017 review of submission by Craigonian

Hello, Sir. I've tried creating a page for Taejon Christian International School a few times over the past months and I have not been successful. Originally, it was noted that my submission sounded too promotional. I did some research on other International schools in Korea, looking at what was acceptable on their pages and what has been flagged (yet accepted) and I believe that I have finally created a decent start to have the page created.

Most recently, my article was rejected as not establishing notability. I thought I had at least approached a bit of this, but I went back to similar school's pages to get direction on what is considered appropriate, but to be honest I'm not sure I understand. There are a number, in fact I would say the majority of similar schools in Korea with pages, that do not appear to have established any thing more notable... at least not with references from places not affiliated. Just a handful of the first schools in our conference and professional circles:

Are we not establishing notability similar to that which has been establish by these schools in their articles?

Another question–Pretty much all of the press that we get about our school is in Korean (while we are an international school, our city tends to be less internationally minded than say, in Seoul.) Would it be okay to use these articles as reference to establish notability then in our English articles? Like these schools in Seoul:

I would like to see a page created, as I am always asked why the school does not have one– that a person went to wikipedia to look for info and was surprised that there was nothing here. I am fine being patient and working on establishing the page, but when I look at how other things have been created, I suppose I find myself comparing, but not understanding. Thank you, Sir for your time and consideration. Have a good day.

Kind Regards,

Craig Craigonian (talk) 02:55, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Craigonian: I understand your frustration. Many hopeful editors like you look at similar subjects to learn how editing should be done because you're ignorant of our numerous guidance pages on the subject. It's important for me to then emphasize that that pointing to other insufficient articles isn't a valid argument. Probably a third of all of Wikipedia should be deleted. We're just in a race against promotional editors trying to advertise. Those promotional editors figured out how to get past AfC and you haven't.
That said, the subject of your draft fails WP:NCORP and WP:GNG, as do many of the articles you've pointed to. I'm going to consider getting all of those deleted. When people ask you why Wikipedia doesn't say anything about your school, please let them know that Wikipedia only writes about notable entities. It's not a website for everything. To answer your second question, yes, you may use non-English language sources. I would consider building an article about the school in Korean-language Wikipedia with those sources and then translate the text into English to improve your current draft. Chris Troutman (talk) 18:56, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Hello, Chris troutman. You have new messages at Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Reviewers#BACKLOG.
Message added 00:09, 1 April 2017 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the ((Talkback)) or ((Tb)) template.

Administrators' newsletter – April 2017

News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2017).

Administrator changes

added TheDJ
removed XnualaCJOldelpasoBerean HunterJimbo WalesAndrew cKaranacsModemacScott

Guideline and policy news

  • Following a discussion on the backlog of unpatrolled files, consensus was found to create a new user right for autopatrolling file uploads. Implementation progress can be tracked on Phabricator.
  • The BLPPROD grandfather clause, which stated that unreferenced biographies of living persons were only eligible for proposed deletion if they were created after March 18, 2010, has been removed following an RfC.
  • An RfC has closed with consensus to allow proposed deletion of files. The implementation process is ongoing.
  • After an unsuccessful proposal to automatically grant IP block exemption, consensus was found to relax the criteria for granting the user right from needing it to wanting it.

Technical news

  • After a recent RfC, moved pages will soon be featured in a queue similar to Special:NewPagesFeed and require patrolling. Moves by administrators, page movers, and autopatrolled editors will be automatically marked as patrolled.
  • Cookie blocks have been deployed. This extends the current autoblock system by setting a cookie for each block, which will then autoblock the user if they switch accounts, even under a new IP.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:54, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This Month in Education: [March 2017]

This Month in Education

Volume 6 | Issue 2 |March 2017

This monthly newsletter showcases the Wikipedia Education Program. It focuses on sharing: your ideas, stories, success and challenges. Be sure to check out the full version, and past editions. You can also volunteer to help publish the newsletter. Join the team!

In This Issue

Featured Topic Newsletter update

Overview on Wikipedia Education Program 2016 in Taiwan

From the Community

High School and Collegiate Students Enhance Waray Wikipedia during Edit-a-thons

Approaching History students as pilot of Education program in Iran

An experience with middle school students in Ankara

Wikishtetl: Commemorating Jewish communities that perished in the Holocaust

From the Education Team

UCSF Students Visit WMF Office as they start their Wikipedia editing journey

Meet the team

In the News

Från dammiga arkiv till artiklar på nätet

If this message is not on your home wiki's talk page, update your subscription.

The new issue of the newsletter is out! Thanks to everyone who submitted stories and helped with the publication. We hope you enjoy this issue of the Education Newsletter.-- Sailesh Patnaik using Saileshpat (talk) 19:07, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please comment on Talk:List of violent incidents in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, 2017

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:List of violent incidents in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, 2017. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 3 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

H.I. Unjustified deletion of properly sourced content

@Chris troutman:Why did you just delete 1800+ characters of 100% sourced content, justifying it by calling it unsourced? It's time for you to drop the stick now.--ArniDagur (talk) 14:49, 3 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@ArniDagur: You need to properly source any content you add. The websites you're using are either not independent or not reliable and in many cases, you're adding cruft. My edit summary for that edit indicated it. The burden is on you. If I take this to WP:AN I guarantee you're not going to like the result. Chris Troutman (talk) 14:54, 3 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Pope Benedict XVI

Would you mind explaining your rationale for reverting my edits to Pope Benedict XVI? Your edit summary only said "unconstructive," which doesn't say anything. The standard on Wikipedia is for articles on living people to begin with "X is..." and for dead people to begin with "X was...", and I see no problem with following that here. Please clarify. --HGK745 (talk) 17:20, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@HGK745: I think you're confusing what you've seen in articles with what can/must/ought to be written. Ratzinger is not known for being a retired German bishop although that's what he is. He's known for being Pope. Normally Popes serve until death and his is an odd instance where that didn't happen. Regardless, your edit was unconstructive because it did not, in my mind, improve the article. I can revert anything you do for any reason or no reason and per WP:BRD, we have to discuss and come to consensus, not edit war as you seem to want to do. That you've been reverted by another editor should point to you that you do not have consensus. Furthermore, I always doubt any changes to lede paragraphs because that's where the cranks and crazies tend to edit. The lede paragraph of a well-developed B-class article is not where you should be editing. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:34, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Information icon Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would like you to assume good faith while interacting with other editors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. --HGK745 (talk) 23:13, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Books and Bytes - Issue 21

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 21, January-March 2017
by Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs), Samwalton9 (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:54, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Hi Chris,

Could you take a moment to consider removing your comment here please? It reads as aggressive and seems to target genderqueer people as "doublethink" non-conformists, rather than real people, please correct me if I'm misinterpreting who you are referring to. The RfC, as stated, is aimed at creating a welcoming environment for everyone, please comment on the proposal rather than your fellow Wikipedians. Thanks -- (talk) 17:18, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@: No. You created an RfC. You cannot then claim that all dissent is non-permissible. The proposal is what I've described as "doublethink". I'm not targeting anyone; I'm simply refusing to assent to changing the wording of our policies and guidelines to cater to an audience that loudly proclaims non-conformity. I, like your intended grievance group, am a real person and I do not find this proposal "welcoming." That you (or others) find my comment aggressive speaks more to these matters of perception than to my intent. Be advised that reaching out to people like me will not always result in adulation as your beliefs are not shared by everyone and your good intentions will not always be met with acceptance. Chris Troutman (talk) 17:28, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Could you please explain exactly who the "non-conformists" are that your comment does, quite visibly, attack? It still reads to me as a direct breach of WP:Civility as being derogatory of a minority group, certainly not a criticism of the proposed policy which would be acceptable.
In replying to me, please remain civil. Language such as "your intended grievance group" is not civil, it reads as further derogatory remarks against a minority group.
Thanks -- (talk) 17:36, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@: Gender non-conformance is whose interests you're representing, right? That's the vocal minority to whom I'm referring. You developed this in an echo chamber and are now surprised someone dare disagree with your idea borne of altruistic motives? That you think it appropriate to call my dissent an NPA violation speaks to the reality of newspeak that you intend to impose, first on policies and help pages, eventually all essays and talk pages, too. In closing, take it WP:AN. There are plenty of admins that would love to hand me a 48hr block for incivility and I would rather that, than bend to your demands.
FYI, "your intended grievance group" is correct, not incivil. The LGBT+ audience seems aggrieved with our current wording and I balk at Wikipedia (or any institution/association) being required to use gender-neutral language simply because these people are present. If He/She Him/Her doesn't apply to an editor or reader they can simply recognize that society does not yet reflect their nonconformity. I've been a user of singular "they" as appropriate as I'm not trying to label people that don't want to be labeled. Rewriting our pages and thereby forcing all editors to follow suit is a bridge too far and it's time you become aware of the lack of unanimity on this subject. Chris Troutman (talk) 17:51, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Based on your reply here, it is clear that you are making presumptions that an "LGBT+ audience seems aggrieved" just because the LGBT+ WikiProject was the original place for draft development. This is unwarranted as the WikiProject is focused on improving the quality of LGBT+ knowledge, it is specifically not limited to LGBT+ people. Further your are presuming that in developing the draft I was representing a "grievance group", this is another unwarranted assumption and a personal attack on me. Your comments about nonbinary people should recognize that society does not reflect their nonconformity is a deliberately derogatory comment against nonbinary people. With these clarifications from yourself, I shall follow your advice and ask for a review at AN, so there is an independent view as to whether these remarks are okay for discussions about other editors on Wikipedia. Thanks -- (talk) 18:02, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Remarks_on_nonbinary_people --NeilN talk to me 18:12, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Bluebook Template

It is not, it is also not duplicative of the UN documents template that is currently available. Bluebook has strict requirements for every kind of legal document (not only cases and journals.) This template is for UN General Assembly Resolutions, which Bluebook requires you to cite with Roman numerals if the resolution was passed before 1976, etc. I have been creating templates as I need them, because many are still not available. For example, the current template to cite constitution is not in Bluebook format. They are useful to me to apply consistent citation format in work I am doing now, and I hope they will also be useful to others in Wikiproject Law who use Bluebook format citation. Seraphimsystem (talk) 03:23, 8 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Addition: A number of FA law articles use Bluebook, Schmerber v. California is one example. I use Bluebook as well, and since it should be consistent throughout the page, I sometimes need to add templates. As a former law student, I would not want to say a page adheres to Bluebook if it doesn't Seraphimsystem (talk) 03:31, 8 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please comment on Talk:Liancourt Rocks

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Liancourt Rocks. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Chris troutman: Apologies, looks like I beat you to closing the RfC by two whole minutes. I'm reassured to see that we both came to the same conclusion though! Regards Exemplo347 (talk) 16:29, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Exemplo347: Totally my fault. I took a minute to read up on the last discussion, hit the button to edit, saw the hab close template at the bottom and assumed it was an offtopic hatting, and posted without double-checking. Certainly I'm happier that the consensus agreed with me but that wouldn't have mattered. Thanks for posting, though. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:33, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

4th GA Cup - Wrap Up

WikiProject Good Articles's 2016 GA Cup - Wrap Up

Hello, GA Cup competitors!

Saturday, April 1 concluded the 2016-2017 GA Cup. 64 reviews were completed by our finalists. Although the backlog increased by 42 over the reviewing period instead of declining, the increase suggests that the contest is encouraging editors to nominate articles for review.

Congratulations to Shearonink, who is the winner of the Cup, finishing with 672 points! Once again, just as in last round, this is more than the point totals for all the other competitors combined! It was a close race for second place between Krishna Chaitanya Velaga, who achieved 164 points, and Sturmvogel_66, who earned 150. Though Sturmvogel_66 reviewed one more article than Krishna Chaitanya Velaga, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga managed to earn 14 points more due to reviewing older articles. Our two wildcard competitors, Kees08 and Chris troutman, came in fourth and fifth, respectively.

There were some bumps in the competition this time: The sign-up deadline and the first round were both extended due to fewer competitors signing up then was planned for. And there were delays in tallying points and getting out the newsletter. The judges apologize for this latter difficulty. Lastly, mid-way through the competition we bid farewell to Zwerg Nase, who stepped down from their position as judge due to other commitments. Information about the Final can be found here.

Thank you to all of our competitors, and congrats to our winners!

Cheers from Figureskatingfan, 3family6, Jaguar, and MrWooHoo.

To subscribe or unsubscribe to future GA Cup newsletters, please add or remove your name to our mailing list. If you are a participant still competing, you will be on the mailing list no matter what as this is the easiest way to communicate between all participants.


Apologies for actions on the page Emma Blackery won't happen again. JTW1098 (talk) 20:59, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please comment on Talk:Anti-fascism

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Anti-fascism. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 15 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Optional RfA candidate poll

I wanted to add myself to the poll (talk) 14:26, 15 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Don't template the regulars

Please don't post warnings or templates on the talkpages of senior editors and master editors who are reverting vandalism. It's not appreciated. Thanks. Softlavender (talk) 14:33, 15 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

April 2017

Information icon Please do not delete or edit legitimate talk page comments, as you did at Wikipedia talk:Being blocked hurts. Such edits are disruptive and appear to be vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. You removed my comment, and unstuck a personal attack. --Endercase (talk) 16:23, 17 April 2017 (UTC) [reply]

Deletion of "Notable alumni" on Loyalsock Township High School

Why was "Notable alumni" deleted on Loyalsock Township High School? Cclark0 (talk) 16:11, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Cclark0: Please read the edit summary I left with that edit and/or read the warning I left on your talk page! You need to provide independent and reliable sources for any claim you add and you should not add entries to lists where the entry is themselves not notable. This is an encyclopedia and we have rules you are expected to follow; you can't just add content because you like to. Also, this is not the first time I've removed that content so I don't know why you fail to understand. Chris Troutman (talk) 17:48, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Trena Collier

Hey Chris. I wanted to touch base with you. I received a speedy deletion for wikipedia on Trena Collier. I must admit I am new to the use of Wikipedia. I am a publicist that has a few clients and trying to set up their pages. Two clients producer have wikipedia pages already that I need to edit, and Trena Collier, I was attempting to set up a brand new page for. She is an american artist/ rapper. That also is a reality show cast member on the Love and Hip Hop Miami. Is there a different forum I should us to set this up? Last question, I was also attempting to upload a photo along with her bio and was a having a hard time. How do I get that done too? In addition, I have included the two producers pages that I need to edit below. They are also linked to Trena as well. They discovered her.

Thanks in advance! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kiedra2124 (talkcontribs) 21:21, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Kiedra2124: As the notice on your talk page indicates, Wikipedia requires editors to disclose conflicts of interest and discourages editors like you from writing about subjects where you have a financial interest. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a promotional vehicle. You would really be better served hiring an active Wikipedian to do this work for you than attempt to do so on your own. I'd recommend you place a request at our reward board. For an insignificant sum (or maybe nothing at all) you can get the help you need. Beware of scams where an unscrupulous editor may try to hold an article hostage for money; they cannot deliver the promises they make nor can they execute their threats. Wikipedia has several tutorials you might use but I don't think someone lacking objectivity should be editing. Chris Troutman (talk) 22:40, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]