The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Turkish military operation in Afrin. (The current title of Operation Olive Branch.) Sandstein 21:51, 22 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Afrin City (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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"The Battle for Afrin City" has not happened yet, going against WP:CRYSTAL. The titled of the page if the battle were to ever occur should also be Battle of Afrin to follow the standard of all other modern battle articles. The page was created by @Deathlibrarian: and has been primarily edited by this editor. It is poorly worded and poorly sourced and seems to just cover Turkish military operation in Afrin. Though the page is meant to be about this battle that hasn't happened yet, it only talks about a partial encirclement of the city. GodsPlaaaaan (talk) 23:40, 14 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There are multiple articles saying the city is encircled, so this is the first stage of the battle, with all roads under direct control of the TAF, or under fire control so people can't get out. It doesn't make sense to nominate this for AFD based on what stage it is at. AFD could take a week or more, the battle could be over by then. In any case, the battle is at its first stages, and "Water cut in Syria's Afrin as Turkey completes encirclement" "Turkish forces surround syrian kurdish city" https://www.sbs.com.au/news/turkish-forces-surround-syrian-kurdish-city "Turkish army: Afrin city center surrounded" Deathlibrarian (talk) 02:56, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Good suggestion - I've changed the title to Battle of Afrin City as Afrin is used both for the general cantonal area, and the city, so we need to differentiate for the user to be clearer. Deathlibrarian (talk) 03:01, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Seems to me to be a partial siege, not a battle... For now, a Battle of Afrin has not started yet, and keeping the word "City" in the title still doesn't follow what any other modern battle article has as a title. It also does not change the fact that the article covers nearly nothing and was poorly sourced/written. GodsPlaaaaan (talk) 09:11, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(1) The battle had started, and is now over (2) "Battle of Afrin" redirects to the overall Afrin Canton *campaign* - city is need to differentiate between the two and makes it easier to find for the user (3) The articles covers the battle in full, in as much depth as is normal for en encyclopeadic wikipedia article (but by all means, feel free to add more) (4) The article has just about every single line referenced, 38 references in total, and mostly good RS (I admit there are couple that could be replaced).

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 09:55, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 09:55, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Syria-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 09:55, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 09:55, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep (I'm the author of the article) The city is now officially surrounded by Turkish forces, they have cut off the water supply, the internet, and they have indicated they are going to attack....and now they are bombarding it with artillery. How is that not the start of a battle for a city?Deathlibrarian (talk) 09:59, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete This does not not need its own article yet, since it is mostly WP:CRYSTAL. Applodion (talk) 15:20, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Not enough information to warrant own article. 2001:16B8:115E:4D00:6836:93D:2B13:820 (talk) 22:13, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Deathlibrarian. On March 12, Turkish Forces had severed the water supply to the city of Afrin, and also cut off the city's internet access suggests the battle has begun, so it's not WP:CRYSTAL. There are sources such as [1], and the topic seems different from Turkish military operation in Afrin, though I'm not opposed to a merge. WP:NOTNEWS generally doesn't keep this type of article out of mainspace. Rename proposals should be done on the talk page through a WP:RM; I have no idea what the correct name for the page is. power~enwiki (π, ν) 00:38, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to the Turkish military operation in Afrin. This new article is really just a content fork. Start a new section on the Battle of Afrin city when it begins. Editor abcdef (talk) 04:20, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Way smaller battles than this are justified as having their own pages, eg Battle of al-Rai (August 2016), a battle where only 10 people were killed. This is a major battle, with Turkey attacking the largest city in Afrin Canton, currently with 350,000 people in it (some sources saying 700,000), with thousands of troops on either side. It *clearly* passes WP:notable and WP:EVENT as a notable event, in order to justify its own page, and has lots of RS. Deathlibrarian (talk) 08:11, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • Battles that have their own articles have actually started/happened :-) Maybe when that's the case for Afrin, a Battle of Afrin page will be started. At the moment, your The Battle for Afrin City page does nothing to help any reader. GodsPlaaaaan (talk) 09:28, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • The Battle of al-Rai was its own operation. It wasn't part of any larger offensive. On the other hand, this Battle of Afrin is part of, and is the main objective of Operation Olive Branch. Editor abcdef (talk) 02:04, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      • Battle of Tabqa (2017) has it's own page, 300 people killed, so no where near as large as this, and that was part of the Raqqa campaign (2016–2017). Same with Battle of al-Bab, which was part of the Euphrates Shield Campaign. With between 350,000 and up to 700,000 people in Afrin city currently, and the SDF having mainly pulled back thousands of troops to Afrin city to mount their defence of the canton in the city, this is clearly a major conflict. Deathlibrarian (talk) 04:51, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well, looks like there is no major battle in Afrin after all. The SDF simply withdrew from the city today. Editor abcdef (talk) 06:10, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• KeepThe city is now officially surrounded by Turkish forces--Panam2014 (talk) 02:48, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge with the Operation Olive Branch. I don't think there is going to be significant action in Afrin city to warrant a separate article. Cheers, Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 06:26, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or Merge with the Operation Olive Branch. Not notable enough nor enough info to warrant its own separate article. EkoGraf (talk) 18:40, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge with the Operation Olive Branch. I think is superfluous.  Iulamgiha  ^{Talk to me} 02:22, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge with the Operation Olive Branch. Looks like not much can be said other than that YPG deserted the city in a matter of 24 hours while causing a mass exodus of refugees out of the city as Turkish rebels pillaged it. That's something that can easily be described at the OOB article. Étienne Dolet (talk) 16:56, 22 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge as others, but with no criticism of the creators of the article intended. The situation has moved on considerably from when this AfD began and the article was created. The SDF withdrew and the city was taken without much of a fight. If there are further developments, a separate article can always be re-created. Bondegezou (talk) 16:57, 22 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.