The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. One two three... 03:59, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Chikamaka[edit]

Chikamaka (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

This article exists solely for the purpose of attempting to validate a fraudulent entity in Grundy County, Tennessee, calling itself "Chikamaka". There is not and never has been a tribe called the "Chikamaka" or any other variation of that name. Indeed, Richard Fields himself remarked to Br. Steiner of the Moravian Brethren when asked the question, "What kind of people are the Chickamauga?", that "They are Cherokee, and we know no difference". The "Chikamaka" of Grundy Co. are merely one of scores of such groups attempting to usurp Cherokee heritage by establishing fake groups such as this. As long as this article exists, Mr. Meeks will continue to perpetrate the fiction. Chuck Hamilton (talk) 05:14, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The name Chikamaka is a trademark of the Chikamaka Band. This page gives reference to the historicity of the people who are a part of the Chikamaka Band. These people are descended from the Chitimauca, Cherokee, Muscogee (Creek), Chickasaw, Choctaw, Delaware, Mohawk, Shawnee, Catawba, their white allies the Tories (mainly Scottish and Irish), and several smaller tribes. If the group was attempting to usurp "Cherokee" heritage, why would the reference be to all the Tribes/entities to which heritage can be traced. This entity has existed and continues to exist. James Everett Meeks (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:26, 18 May 2009 (UTC).[reply]

• Delete. Article has egregious conflict of interest issues, and primarily seeks to promote a cause. Its tone is inappropriate, and the veracity is suspect. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 05:46, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Delete. COI, looks like it's been cut and pasted. There may be a notable topic here, but the current page doesn't show it (possibly due to edit war). Perhaps the user needs to work on it as a user page and recreate once it's more polished? Stuartyeates (talk) 08:37, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. No real sources--and a long list of external links does not count as such--wildly inappropriate tone and original research means that this does not belong here. Perhaps Mr Meeks can continue to host it at his own web site, and an uninvolved person--if he or she can find valid evidence for this tribe's existence--can write an appropriate article. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 09:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or complete neutral rewrite. Hairhorn (talk) 15:11, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Whether or not there was a Chickamauga/Chikamaka tribe, the term is in wide use and is notable one way or the other. See bookseach and wesearch on Chikamaka; and on "Chickamauga Tribe". Not saying that the article as it currently is doesn't need a re-write and better sourcing - but that is not a deletion rationale. Athanasius • Quicumque vult 14:16, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All those quotes are exactly the same and, therefore, clearly from the same source, so basically it amounts to a single source, with incorrect information. There was never a "Chickamauga" tribe seperate from the Cherokee. That is a historical fiction invented by J. P. Brown. Chuck Hamilton (talk) 14:26, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• There is a similar discussion going on about a similarly fraudulent "tribe" at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Northern Cherokee Nation of the Old Louisiana Territory, in which those of you who have commented here may be interested. Chuck Hamilton (talk) 15:11, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have a hard time believing that all 82 google book hits linked above to "Chicamauga tribe" are exactly the same, and that none of them are reliable sources. And the searches above are very restricted searches, using more general terms turns up even more. Nancy Lee Rhoden, Ian Kenneth Steele, The Human Tradition in the American Revolution, (Rowman & Littlefield, 2000), p. 132 refers in passing to the Chickamauga Indians, or any number of books in this search which talk about Chickamauga Indians. Athanasius • Quicumque vult 15:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Your remarks are completely irrelevant to the current discussion of this specific article. It is a matter of fact, however, that no such entity as a "Chickamauga" tribe seperate from the rest of the Cherokee ever existed. Chuck Hamilton (talk) 15:35, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would strongly disagree. Using reliable sources to establish notability is precisely the point of an AfD. Athanasius • Quicumque vult 17:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: The article has been speedy-deleted for bltant copyright violations. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 12:51, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.