The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Fenix down (talk) 11:57, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comparisons between the North American Soccer League and Major League Soccer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Seems to be WP:SYNTH Spiderone 12:24, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 12:25, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 12:25, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 12:25, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone 12:27, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as pure OR. GiantSnowman 12:44, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Like the other AfD of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Comparisons between the Women's United Soccer Association, Women's Professional Soccer, and National Women's Soccer League. I also see major issue regarding WP:OR. Govvy (talk) 12:59, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 14:34, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete same reason as the other AfD, WP:OR. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:13, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete not just for WP:SYNTH issues, but because the format makes the article nigh unreadable. Even if this topic does meet notability, it should probably be nuked. Jay eyem (talk) 19:15, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @GiantSnowman:, @Spiderone:, @Govvy: There are several sites online that makes a "compare and contrast" argument between the North American Soccer League (1968-84) and its successor in the United States/Canada, Major League Soccer: BY THE NUMBERS… NORTH AMERICAN SOCCER LEAGUE VS MAJOR LEAGUE SOCCER, Collaboration versus Confrontation: Comparing the Successes and Failures of Major League Soccer and the American Soccer League, Assessing Major League Soccer's Efficiency - Fisher Digital ... (scroll down to page 6), Has MLS Really Learned the Lessons of the NASL? , The Great Debate: Promotion and Relegation in American Soccer, Tim Hanley's Recollections of an NASL Soccer Career - How does the NASL compare to MLS?, Taking the Training Wheels Off MLS: Why the Single Entity Antitrust Exemption Should No Longer Apply (scroll down to page 548), Has MLS learned from the past? - Los Angeles Times, Soccer around the World: A Cultural Guide to the World's Favorite Sport, We Are Not All The Same | MLS vs NASL Part I, Like a Phoenix Rising - Los Angeles Times, Too bad MLS can't auction off Beckham BornonJune8 (talk) 2:15, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
    • @GiantSnowman:, @Spiderone:, @Govvy:, @Jay eyem:, @KingSkyLord: This is the most clear "compare and contrast" argument between the NASL and MLS that I found thus far: Follow the money to see if U.S. pro soccer leagues remain viable

      Some of the similarities between MLS and the 1968-1984 version of the North American Soccer League (think Pelé and the Cosmos) are hard to ignore. The NASL grew quickly through expansion, even as its established teams struggled; several MLS sides have fallen behind, as the league adds new teams virtually every season. Enthusiasm for a few of the NASL’s teams was counterbalanced by apathy among others. Likewise, several MLS sides draw enormous crowds while others, irrespective of the product on the field, struggle to draw fans. The similarities are even more striking on the women’s side, which saw two leagues close shop in less than a decade. Both the Women’s United Soccer Association (WUSA, 2001-03) and Women’s Professional Soccer (WPS, 2009-11) began with optimistic visions of being the best women’s league in the world. Both leagues had trouble attracting sponsors, fans and committed ownership. Both had to close down when the money ran out. Even though the NWSL has lasted into a sixth year and is thriving in several cities, the league last offseason lost two franchises that were unwilling to continue losing money. The biggest difference on the MLS side is the money at stake. NASL teams flitted around the map, folding at the drop of a hat, because their owners had invested so little that folding or moving a team made perfect financial sense. The Minnesota Kicks’ second, less-involved owner famously folded the team over the phone. Today’s MLS owners have franchises worth hundreds of millions of dollars and most have soccer-specific stadiums to host the teams — investments too large to let fail. The NWSL, though, is more concerning. Costs are more controlled than the WUSA or WPS, which is a positive. The league also has five teams that share ownership with MLS teams, plus the United States and Canadian soccer federations paying salaries for their national-team players. Those are helpful backstops to prevent a sudden end to the league.

      BornonJune8 (talk) 3:06, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

This is wikipedia the online encyclopaedia, it doesn't say it's a comparison website now does it! Have you even read WP:SYNTH or WP:OR?? Govvy (talk) 09:34, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Govvy: The last time that I checked, there are numerous articles concerning various comparisons, not just of sports, but of science, politics, medicine, the military, etc. So don't come in and tell me that Wikipedia isn't at all, in part a comparison website, because that isn't exactly true! BornonJune8 (talk) 10:17, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but in my opinion, some of them probably shouldn't exist either. But the existence of them isn't evidence that this should be kept. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:24, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@BornonJune8: please do not ping me, you are not going to change my mind. If you want a long career on Wikipedia I also suggest you read what everyone else is saying and accept the clear consensus. GiantSnowman 10:55, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not ping me, I am already watching the page. I am not convinced that this needs its own page; I think much of the relevant comparisons could be merged into History of soccer in the United States or something. But that isn't even the real issue here in my opinion; the article is basically unreadable, primarily due to the way it is structured. Why on Earth is all of the prose in these boxes? And why is there a side by side comparison? A brief reading of the actual prose in the box just describes what happened in each league in its respective year of existence rather than making an actual comparison. That hardly merits a "comparison". Really the only part of the article that is readable for me is the box comparing the cities in each league, and that certainly wouldn't merit its own article. I think that what useful comparison there is should be merged into another article and the rest of it, if needed, should be nuked and started again. Jay eyem (talk) 14:32, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete so much synth and OR. And what, not contrasts? :) Nfitz (talk) 04:06, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per everyone above. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 17:26, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, even if this is somehow an article we should have (of which I'm not at all convinced), there is nothing salvageable in this mess. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 01:23, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.