The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. MBisanz ^talk 01:47, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

David Sirlin[edit]

David Sirlin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

I know I'm breaking my own rule and nominating this for deletion on the day of creation, but I don't see how this will ever be salvageable, and IMO it's better to sort it out now. Quite aside from the totally inappropriate tone (which can be fixed), there's an issue of the total lack of sources and total lack of the slightest suggestion of notability (which can't).  – iridescent 22:29, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. It's in the process of being written, and a number of us are producing sources. There's good enough proof of his notability if you stop to even look for a little while in any online -- and even physical! -- game publication that has bothered to cover Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix since he has literally been the driving force behind it. It's mainly up to those of us writing it to finish it, and that's what we're working on. It is salvageable (it already is leaps and bounds better than when it was originally written). --nothingxs (talk) 22:40, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Sirlin is a Creative Professional, who is highly regarded within the gaming industry. The lack of referencing, as has been stated, is in the process of being remedied. He is also an accomplished Street Fighter player, placing highly and winning many high profile events. I'm not sure Wikipedia's stance on the notability of e-athletes, but it would be safe to say that David Sirlin has competed at the highest tournament level. - Psymunn (talk) 23:05, 20 November 2008 (UTC) — Psymunn (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

• Delete (for now). Fails WP:BIO. Sources are not about the subject and are either written by him or just mention him. But lets see what happens over the next 5 days.... Gtstricky^{Talk or C} 23:07, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • We can find sources about the subject. Give us a little time and some elbow grease. --nothingxs (talk) 23:08, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment It's rather poor form to mark for deletion an article that had been tagged in good faith as ((underconstruction)) and was actively undergoing improvement by several editors. This one is far from a lost cause - Google News picks up over a dozen mentions, some of which I have added to the article. Give an article a chance, I say. the skomorokh 23:36, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep but edit out the unencyclopedic promotional quality... ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:03, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Apparent comment from subject:

I don't know if this helps, but I wrote a lot of stuff on gamasutra. You can go to gamasutra.com, click search and type "sirlin" to find this stuff.

World of Warcraft Teaches the Wrong Things Saving the Day: Save Systems in Games (they chose that title) Understanding the Fun of Super Mario Galaxy Difficulty Tuning in Games (was the lead design article in the print magazine, Game Deveoper Magazine) Power of Pacing (was also the lead design article in the print Magazine) An Achievement-Oriented CCG? Designing Kongai The Trouble With Patents My book excerpt on their site: [1]

The warcraft article [is]—even to this day—the most-read article ever on gamasutra.com, the industry's main trade site. I don't know where there's links to prove that, but here is at least proof that it was the #1 article in 2006 and the separate gamasutra post that's just about the RESPONSES to the article was the 4th most popular thing the entire year on their site.(ref removed)

I'm also mentioned in other people's gamasutra articles:[2] [3] I like this one because famous game designer and writer calls my patent article the best one ever written on gamasutra, even though actual patent lawyers wrote several articles on the same subject: [4]

And all that is just from gamasutra. Not to mention Puzzle Fighter and Street Fighter being high profile, or Kongregate's meteoric rise, with my Kongai game as the metagame for their entire site. Or that I'm in Bang the Machine. Hell, I got 5th in the last two years of Evolution's world finals in ST, I won ECC3, ECC4, and ECC7, just to name a few, and some people seem "notable" on wikipedia JUST for winning at games.

— User "Sirlin", "David Sirlin wikipedia page!", Sirlin.net, 22nd November 2008

[5], the skomorokh 16:46, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• This article has been listed as a video games-related deletion discussion. the skomorokh 18:21, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep — Only one day after its creation is a tad premature to go AFD. Let's give the article a chance, first. MuZemike (talk) 18:59, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Scrape clean and start anew as creator of article left no doubt that he had created the article as a joke. If it can be shown that Mr. Sirlin passes WP:BIO with reliable sourcing, I would not oppose a fresh, well-cited, objective restart of this article. Formerly 147.70.242.40, now 147.70.242.54 (talk) 19:06, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Sources demonstrate the subject's notability (at least the ones that are up as I can see them now). --UsaSatsui (talk) 19:38, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong keep: very intelligent commentator in game design circles. Start with gamasutra. Randomran (talk) 21:41, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - It seems that sufficient sources have been added to keep the article. And I know more exist. Fieari (talk) 21:52, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Being transparent, I worked on the latest game Sirlin developed, Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix, though not directly with David in any capacity (my work was on the soundtrack with OverClocked ReMix). That being said, Sirlin's substantially built a reputation for balancing games as well as documenting the proper motivations and mindsets for top players across many genres of games. I know Google searches aren't be-all-end-all litmus tests, but aside from his own writings, there are many interviews out there regarding his professional work and many sources supporting his unique reputation and skillsets in professional game development. - Liontamer (talk) 22:32, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. A little off topic, but I find it more than a little funny that the author of the article created it to troll the subject, and has actually now been blocked for his vandalism in trying to have it deleted. An interesting little study in ownership... --UsaSatsui (talk) 23:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Life is funny that way, isn't it? --nothingxs (talk) 11:12, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, notable and the article needs time for expansion. —Locke Cole • t • c 07:35, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.