The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. If we ignore comments from sockpuppets and block-evading IP editors, the only argument for "keep" comes from In ictu oculi, but, as others have pointed out, the coverage that In ictu oculi mentions is not substantial, in-depth coverage. The mere fact that she is briefly mentioned in books about someone else does not demonstrate notability, "she's a backing singer/muse to someone who is not a nobody" is off the point, as notability is not inherited, and the fact that she "has released records under her own name" is not enough, as so have thousands of people who come nowhere near to satisfying Wikipedia's notability standards. Some editors arguing for "delete", on the other hand, have advanced good reasons in line with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 19:54, 24 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Dina Rae (singer)[edit]

If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.

However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.

Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts: ((subst:spa|username)); suspected canvassed users: ((subst:canvassed|username)); accounts blocked for sockpuppetry: ((subst:csm|username)) or ((subst:csp|username)).

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

The article clearly does not meet WP:BASIC or WP:MUSICBIO for a Wikipedia article. Fevrret (talk) 02:59, 4 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – The subject does not meet WP:MUSICBIO at all. Her only claim of significance is through her association with Eminem and their early collaborations. It was already deleted at Wikipedia: Articles for deletion/Dina Rae and the subject has done nothing of significance since then at all. There is no independent coverage in reliable sources that would indicate any notability. Not to mention the creator/top contributor is a personal friend of the subject. Thank you Fevrret for nominating this, I was going to wait for the RM to close so there would be no technical issues, but this discussion might just need to be moved once the article is. I firmly believed this should have been G4ed, but a regular user that had no access to the deleted version at all declined it. STATic message me! 05:59, 4 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Deleted once before, when the page was Dina Rae; the previous AfD discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dina Rae. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:10, 4 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The orginal article was unrelialbe all it said she was an American R&B singer and she did a few tracks with Eminem, Obie Trice and Jin; I would like to point out @STATicVapor:, I know of her from Facebook and that she sent me a signed copy of The Dina Rae Show and Snippets of Powerhouse With a Pen and I interviewed her for a Media Studies coursework for a paper and I thought she'd be aight with it and she was but it hardly makes us "Hey Dina, Mum's cooking a Sunday Roast, hop on a plane to the UK and we'll dish you up a plate" OK I follow her on Twitter and she returned the favour, but I'd like to point out she has done a lot more since the original article was written, She was featured on Phokuz's "Today" song (2013), Bigg Hunnitt$' "Real Weigh" (2013), "Welcome to LA" and "Fan Mail" by King Lil' G (2013) as well as more recently Kreed-N-Deed's "Reaching for the Stars" (2014) and is working on her debut album, if we got rid of her article, we'd have to get rid of both Sylvia Striplin (who's article tags her as could be alive and doesn't say that she's done anything since the '80's other than her song "You Can't Turn Me Away" has been sampled by Junior M.A.F.I.A., Erykah Badu and was featured on GTA Vice City Stories and we'd have to delete Jentina's article as well; only released three singles and an album exclusively to Italy and has given up ebing a rapper so I don't think we should delete Dina Rae's page as she's still working even if it's behind the scenes now Bling$Bling$Blang$Blang$ (talk) 18:59, 4 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and for God's sake. Please upload a picture of her 93.186.23.96 (talk) 03:52, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You gave no guideline backing reason for keeping, your vote holds much less weight that way. STATic message me! 17:10, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - User:STATicVapor when you say "There is no independent coverage in reliable sources that would indicate any notability" are you including David Stubbs Eminem: The Stories Behind Every Song 2006 1560259469 p.195 "Eminem has demonstrated immense professional fidelity to Dina Rae, to whom he invariably turns when needing a female vocal. Some might argue that this is because few women could stand Eminem's misogynistic company, but it's ..." Or Vibe November 2002 p.94 "And the seedy-sounding girl on "Superman" and "Drug Ballad" isn't a ho-she's a charming woman called Dina Rae ..." I don't understand why these sources and the other dozen Google Book hits shouldn't be counted as independent coverage in reliable sources. Admittedly she's mainly a backing singer/muse. But she's a backing singer/muse to someone who is not a nobody and has released records under her own name also. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:45, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I note also that the AFD is brought by a new and inexperienced editor and that there are wikis for Dina Rae in 8 other languages. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:13, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Those are articles about Eminem, please note the words significant and independent coverage in reliable sources that is needed. She is not the topic or even subtopic of these Books, it is trivial coverage. You need to see WP:INHERITED. Notability is not inherited from Eminem or their songs, she must have individual notability. Her personal work has never received any kind of coverage. It should be clearly noted, that none of her recent work away from Eminem has been covered in reliable sources, trivial or not. STATic message me! 17:10, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep What's wrong with the article? I'll tell you; Eminem hasn't used her since D12's "Bitch" song and the only woman he turns to now is Rihanna also if Motown hadn't messed around with Dina, And?, Can't Even C It and possibly other tracks ("In Ya Dreams", is a personal favourite and fans of Dina know that song and I think it could've been a single but Motown might have thought it was a bit "ghetto, ho-ish and too explicit" for them as they were used to their songs to be like "I Heard it From the Grapevine" but if she was as bigger star as the star she's worked with from The Slim Shady LP we'd have more information, it's not like she's some girl from LA who thought she could sing but sounds like a cat being strangled and he ditched her 'cause he knew he would be a one hit wonder and their careers were over, no he went from unknown emcee to the King of Rap and he kinda helped boost her career, she went from Eminem/D12 to Proof, to Obie Trice, to Ms. Korona, Jin to even being a DJ in LA, she is what you'd call a celebrity but she's not an A list celebrity so keep the page 217.39.34.5 (talk) 16:42, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Bling$Bling$Blang$Blang$, please only comment under your account. Logging out to vote in AfD discussions is sockpuppetry. STATic message me! 17:10, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Er I was logged in on my account; what you chatting about and please stop adding comments it's a bit boring you're backed up into a corner and your just acting like you've got a bee in your bonnet Bling$Bling$Blang$Blang$ (talk) 21:13, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I would also like to add the remix of And? - Dina Rae featuring Erick Sermon was featured on Kiss: Hot Joints 2 CD 2, track 14 released in 2004 and still selling on Amazon.co.uk^[1] so there, that might help Bling$Bling$Blang$Blang$ (talk) 21:32, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And I would like to add this, STATicVapor I do believe you're taking it out on this page 'cause I commented on your behaviour towards Wikipedia, so I do think you're acting uncivil Bling$Bling$Blang$Blang$ (talk) 21:37, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and salt fails WP:MUSICBIO, and notability is not WP:INHERITED. Snuggums (talk / edits) 03:59, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. An effort has obviously been made to make the article appear well-referenced, but none of them amount to in-depth coverage of the subject in independent secondary sources, so notability is not demonstrated. Cheers, Dawn Bard (talk) 12:59, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep - Just need optimizations, but the article itself is right. Maybe we need to tag as ((notability)), but no reason to delete it. [1] previously AfD Discussion makes me point out a weak keep. Bdboyc (talk) 20:35, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, as Bdboyc pointed out, and what don't help she ain't as famous to find out information about her, who knows might she might release a album, a autobiography or something and we could get info on her but keep it 5.81.224.153 (talk) 20:57, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete notability claim is not really convincing. The Banner talk 22:29, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Yes the article needs a LOT of work done to it and needs a LOT of RELIABLE sources; but I don't think we should get rid of the article we need reliable information and a grammar check on it too. 93.186.31.82 (talk) 09:26, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: This was missing from the daily AfD lists. I've reattached to the daily list of 7 September, somewhat arbitrarily. I'll let an other admin make the call as to whether to close or relist this. --j⚛e decker ^talk 19:32, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, slakr^\ talk / 08:23, 20 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment — There's a lot of socking/meating going on above. Ignoring those, the result is becoming clearer, but additional policy and guideline-based arguments are appreciated. Mainly relisting because this somehow dropped off the AfD log (as noted by Joe Decker). --slakr^\ talk / 08:28, 20 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:28, 21 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:28, 21 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

^ http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hot-Joints-2-Various-Artists/dp/B0006BHSM6/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410125258&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=kiss+urban+joints+2