The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete \ Backslash Forwardslash / {talk} 00:01, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Eoghan Carew[edit]

PRODded my myself with the concern that "fails WP:ATHLETE as has never played in a fully-pro league"; PROD was removed by article creator DavidDublin (talk · contribs) who claimed that "Carew played in the League of Ireland which is a professional League." However, thie asumption is incorrect in two ways. Firstly, the League of Ireland is NOT a fully-professional league (confirmed by WP:FOOTBALL). Secondly, Carew's club Kildare County plays in the FAI First Division, the second tier of football in Ireland and a level which is certainly NOT fully-professional. Carew, therefore, still fails WP:ATHLETE and the article should be deleted. Giant Snowman 12:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. Giant Snowman 12:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per the WP:ATHLETE failure. пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 12:33, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. General notability guideline generally overrides any of the supplemental guidelines. Specifically, articles should not be deleted for failing one of the subguidelines if it can be demonstrated that there exists substantial coverage in reliable sources covering the person anyways. The subject appears to pass the basic WP:N requirements based on the level of multiple coverage seen at this Google News search. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - WP:GNG says that "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article." But none of the news reports you have brought to our attention meet this - they do not "address the subject directly in detail"! Giant Snowman 12:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have updated the article. I have added 2 sources which do address the subject directly and in detail. I have linked it up to the wiki. The teams he has played for and the Championships that he have one already have full wikipedia pages for them. His father is also one of the most famous Kildare Footballers of the millenium. David —Preceding undated comment added 15:00, 1 July 2009 (UTC).[reply]

No, the only source which addresses "the subject directly and in detail" is this one, which is his club profile. Also, just because the team he plays for is notable enough for an article doesn't mean that he is. ALSO, notability is not inherited from his "famous" father. Giant Snowman 15:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, if thems the rules then Eoghan Carew goes. I disagree with the rules, Kevin Doyle began with the Wexford Youths who are Irish First Division, Roy Keane started with Cobh Ramblers also Irish First Division, John O'Shea and Daryl Murphy also with Waterford Utd. If these guys early careers aren't documented on wikipedia, this is the sort of information that will be extremely hard to find in the future. I have also seen countless articles I have written for such players re-used in club match day programs up and down Ireland. Proves that these are useful. I know I've lost the fight. Just giving my opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DavidDublin (talk • contribs) 07:56, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The main thing setting Carew apart from Doyle, Keane, O'Shea etc, is that they have all gone on to play fully-professional levels. I can imagine there are thousands of players who go through the clubs in the FAI First Division who don't amount a great deal. If Carew plays at a fully-professional level then the article can easily be recreated. --Jimbo^[online] 08:16, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Of course there are thousands of FD (FAI First Division) players that don't go on to play for fully-pro clubs, there are also thousands that do, and not just to England, we have fully pro teams here in Ireland too. How can the article easily be recreated - all the info and references are lost? Check Daryl Murphy, his Waterford United career and any background on it is all but forgotten by the wiki. He was worth £100,000 when he transferred from the League of Ireland. I don't understand why these articles are being deleted. People want these articles (check how many Irish players are being created on the wiki. check the Irish Football wiki project). People use these articles (check Padraig Amond/Ger O'Brien when they were transferred to a fully pro club their early career and background was already filled in, lets face it, for famous players the early career and background is that most difficult part to source and write. check the match day programs that use the players wiki pages to help write their pre match programs and their player profiles). Why delete them? What makes a player suddenly notable by playing one minute for a fully pro-team? There are internationals in the FD and players that have played fully pro in the past, and believe me they are many times less notable and celebrated by the club than the club captain/top scorer/young potential star. You reach a point where your best players are not allowed have articles but some useless barbados international is? The FD is not some back water amateur league. It is mostly semi-pro with a couple of fully pro teams (Shelbourne/Sporting Fingal) and run by a fully professional organisation - the FAI. It is covered by local, national and international media - for example sky sports.
The article can easily be recreated by requesting to an admin that it be reinstated - once he/or any other subject becomes notable. With regards to articles on "captain/top scorer/young potential star" and "some useless barbados international", you might think they deserve an article for being a decent player, but another fan might think they're not - it's too subjective, which is why notability criteria is in place. --Jimbo^[online] 11:16, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Thanks for the explanation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DavidDublin (talk • contribs) 11:58, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I don't see any multiple significant and detailed coverage, but only occasional references to his name in match reports (using quotes to keep John Carew citations off the search results). This is definitely not enough evidence to meet WP:N, and if possible even strengthen any argument for deleting the article. --Angelo (talk) 12:48, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. -- TexasAndroid (talk) 16:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions. -- TexasAndroid (talk) 16:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:ATHLETE as he hasn't played in a fully-pro competition. Also fails WP:N due to no sources that assert any notability. --Jimbo^[online] 21:20, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Non notable soccer player. --Carioca (talk) 22:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, Carew has competed in the League of Ireland, First Division is still League of Ireland. He got paid therefore professional. Many of the top teams are fully professional, other teams are semi professional.

Secondly, I'm not sure where to post my comments on this issue. I put them on Carew's talk page first but seems that I should put them here. How do I sign it? How do I quote other peoples posts to make a counter point?

Thirdly. This probably doesnt matter now but this was my defence to keep the article.

Carew played in the League of Ireland which is a professional League. It is the highest level of soccer in the Republic of Ireland. It is covered in the local, national and international media. The national broadcaster carries a weekly show focusing on the League. International broadcasters such as Sky Sports and Setanta Sports carry news/footage/matches from the League.

The Republic of Ireland national soccer team is ranked 35 in the World. And the FAI League of Ireland is ranked 30 out of 53 European Leagues. Teams from the league have competed with Hamburg, Dinamo Kiev, Bayern Munich, Red star Belgrade, Deportivo, Nantes, Paris Saint Germain, IFK Goteborg in recent European competition.

There is an interest for these articles on wikipedia.

Amateur sports persons are all over the wikipedia because there is an interest. Eoghan Carew can be removed if the list of GAA players, the list of Lacross players are also removed. Both are purely amateur or semi professional leagues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Lacrosse_League http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Geraghty

This makes this article noteworthy.

Also see point 3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wiki_spirit —Preceding unsigned comment added by DavidDublin (talk • contribs) 14:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.