The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. After discussion at Deletion review there was consensus to overturn this close in favor of deletion. See the DRV discussion for more details. Barkeep49 (talk) 01:33, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Barkeep49 (talk) 01:33, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fagan, California (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Another rail siding, as even the gazetteers agree, in the middle of a bunch of orchards and farms. I see nothing giving it any notability as such. Mangoe (talk) 13:53, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Lightburst (talk) 14:14, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Lightburst (talk) 14:14, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Ok, so this article is obviously tiny and most people probably have never heard of this town nor will ever hear of it. However, in my opinion it does meet this, and if you go dig for it you might uncover some history. NYCDOT (talk) 15:54, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - The settlement began as "Fagan Ranch". No doubt this is a place, identified here and here. This source writes "A siding on S.P.R.R. S of Gridley, is now a community". Magnolia677 (talk) 19:19, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Yes, it's a place that exists, but not a notable one. No evidence that this is or was a "town". Not legally recognized and does not meet GNG, so it fails WP:GEOLAND #1 and #2. –dlthewave ☎ 05:39, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fagan is recognized by the US government as a populated place, and Geoland #2 does not need legal recognition to establish notability. Moreover, in 1977, Forrest D. Dunn, a local researcher commissioned by a reputable organization, compiled a history of place names in Butte County and stated that Fagan "is now a community", and satellite images indeed show both farms and houses located at Fagan. So...three sources support that the place actually exists, one source states that the railroad siding became a community, and satellite images and street view shows old houses there. This absolutely exceeds the threshold for "proof". Do people living in the hamlet still called it Fagan? Did they call it Fagan 50 years ago? That we don't know. All we can do with these extinct place names is look at the sources, and one of them--a reliable one from 40 years ago--described this former stop on a railway with its own siding, which now has homes and farms, as a "community". Magnolia677 (talk) 10:22, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If we take GNIS at face value (which we shouldn't), this would be a "populated place" which is a category used for places that specifically aren't officially recognized. Geoland #2 says that populated places without legal recognition are "considered on a case-by-case basis in accordance with the GNG", and I'm just not finding sufficient coverage to meet that requirement. One source saying it is/was a community is not enough. Every newspaper mention that I could find describes it as "Fagan ranch" or "Fagan place" with context making it very clear that this was just a ranch that was later subdivided. If we're analyzing satellite/streeetview images, I don't see a distinct cluster of homes that would be distinct from the typical sprinkling of houses in the area Southeast of Gridley. –dlthewave ☎ 15:01, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Appears to pass WP:GEOLAND as it is a recognized community. AlessandroTiandelli333 (talk) 13:19, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't a community at all. Mangoe (talk) 02:18, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Move to Manzanita, Butte County, California This is a tricky one. The basic thrust of WP:GEOLAND is that if it is or ever was an actual community, it should be kept; if it was just a locale or some other type of name on the map, it should be deleted unless it passes GNG. Aside from the CSU Chico paper found by Magnolia677 I'm not seeing any other sources that refer to Fagan as a community. The city of Gridley 2 miles to the north has a long-running local paper, the Gridley Herald, with an extensive selection of back issues available as a free searchable online archive. When I searched the archive for Fagan, almost all the results were people with the last name Fagan. A search for "in Fagan" returned nothing. A search for "at Fagan" returned one result about "ordering six cars for the Southern Pacific siding at Fagan". A search for "from Fagan" returned two results: one about a company called Fagan Alligator Products from Dade City, Florida; one about "surfacing portions of Hwy 99E from Fagan station south of Gridley to the Biggs intersection". Looking at historic maps using the USGS topo explorer, I noticed that the high-res maps marked Fagan but the low-res maps marked the same area as Manzanita. This made me suspect that while the siding/station is called Fagan, the community that formed in that area became known as Manzanita instead. Further searches of the Gridley Herald archives substantiate this. Dozens of search results appear listing Manzanita alongside the more-established local cities of Gridley and Biggs. Most of these are in the context of the local school districts of those names, but not all, for example: "Dr. Ward urges all pet owners in the Biggs, Gridley and Manzanita areas to have their dogs and cats immunized against rabies." Other examples of coverage that implicitly treat Manzanita as a community, for example: "Gridley firefighters responded to a mobile home fire near Larkin Road in Manzanita." Finally, local toponymy also supports the name Manzanita; in addition to the school district and elementary school of that name, there is a Manzanita Market and there used to be a Manzanita Fire Station. Everything I've found leads me to believe that the author of the CSU Chico paper was saying that a community had formed around the site of the siding, not that that community was known as Fagan.−−− Cactus Jack 🌵 09:58, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete I am persuaded by CactusJack that Fagan is not and never has been a community. I am less persuaded that we should move to Manzanita. Although there is some evidence it might be a community, it sounds more like a district name.Glendoremus (talk) 00:33, 17 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Is not a notable community. CJ's info suggests a Manzanita article may be reasonable, but that can be made separately. Reywas92^Talk 17:32, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete I find CJ's argument persuasive and agree a Manzanita article may be appropriate. --Micky (talk) 02:36, 20 June 2020 (UTC) Blocked sockpuppet Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:22, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.