The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. postdlf (talk) 16:22, 26 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fokker machine gun (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Another gun article based entirely on a patent. The patent itself is a WP:PRIMARY source from the WP:GNG perspective. Despite the famous name dropped in this article, I wasn't able find any confirmation that this particular patent was actually used in a machine gun. Its appearance in a long list of machine gun patents in a US gov work (by Chinn) does not make it sufficiently notable for Wikipedia. Someone not using his real name (talk) 01:45, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Firearms-related deletion discussions. Someone not using his real name (talk) 01:46, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Netherlands-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:15, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:15, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - fails WP:GNG. I note the article says it was "manufactured", but there is no evidence it actually was. Ansh666 03:57, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per below, I guess a redirect after deletion could be useful, to Fokker or interrupter gear or something. Ansh666 21:43, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete and redirect - I did some searching through various sources, and while there are a lot of hits, they are mostly discussing Fokker-Leimberger and Interrupter gear#Fokker's synchronizer. It appears that not only does this gun fail GNG (for instance, the article doesn't even tell us when this gun was designed - it could have been 1913 or 1996, unless you click through the sources), it also appears that the article would best be suited as a redirect to Fokker. Cdtew (talk) 15:02, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete this article and redirect to Interrupter gear. There is no credible information that this gun was ever made. All internet searches led to Wiki, Wiki-mirrors or to the Fokker's Interrupter gear.--RAF910 (talk) 20:30, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete unless somebody can at least come up with firm evidence that Fokker ever manufactured their own gun. There seems to be no direct relationship to the Fokker interrupter gear, developed for other manufacturers' weapons, and presumably it would simply have shared the same system. Cdtew comments above about vagueness over the date of the design, and I note that the original German patent was filed in February 1918. That and the fact that the patent was for application to a crank operated machine guns points to this being part of development work during WWI for Fokker to produce their own gun for use on their aircraft, but there is nothing directly in the patent to confirm that. Even if such sources could be found, it would need another step to show notability. This is one of number of related articles in which the editor tests our trust in his good faith; the source given does not support the article which contains statements that either come from a source unknown to others or are simply made up. --AJHingston (talk) 23:44, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually I don't see any direct relationship with the interrupter gear myself. This is a design for a breech block that uses a rotary mechanism to close and open the breech. Apparently the gist of it was that "The arrangement is such that the locking levers are subjected only to a compression and not to a bending stress". Presumably this would have improved reliability. Maybe it was intended to be used together with a simpler external synchronizer via the crank somehow, e.g. having the gun fired by motion obtained from the engine/propeller much like a chain gun, but the one-page patent text doesn't say anything about that. The patent says nothing about what was supposed to power the crank. I think it was part of the not-well-known experimentation that Fokker put into designing his own aviation guns, like the Fokker-Leimberger, but this patent is certainly not for a gatling. Someone not using his real name (talk) 08:17, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The source cited in the F-L article does mention that Fokker and Luebbe "produced several designs. One had a direct drive by a crank of an otherwise normal Maxim-gun mechanism." The patten from this wiki article is however not exactly for that but advanced its own breech design. Someone not using his real name (talk) 08:46, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.