The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Protests against Donald Trump. The headcount provides an almost even three-way split of delete, merge and keep opinions. As to the arguments, the "delete" and "merge" side points out the significant overlap with articles such as Protests against Donald Trump, 2017 Women's March, Inauguration of Donald Trump#Protests and List of 2017 Women's March locations. In the light of Wikipedia policy and practice, notably WP:CFORK, which instructs us to avoid creating content forks (that is, covering the same topic in different articles), I find these arguments to be stronger than those advanced by the "keep" side, which mostly amount to "it's useful", "it's notable" or "it's important", which may well be true but do not address the content-forking arguments. Taking this into consideration, I do not find consensus for outright deletion, but rather consensus to find an editorial solution by redirecting and (selectively) merging (as editors may deem appropriate) to avoid content duplication except as required by summary style. Given the strong policy-based arguments not to maintain the current list in main space, I am not merely slapping a "merge" tag on the list but redirecting it to the most frequently mentioned target, Protests against Donald Trump. Any merger that editors may agree on can occur from the article's history, and the redirect target can also be changed as deemed appropriate.  Sandstein  08:14, 29 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Inauguration of Donald Trump protests[edit]

Article was renamed to Donald Trump inauguration protests.
Inauguration of Donald Trump protests (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Useless listcruft, no point in keeping this, if there are any notable protests, the content should be merged into one of the already many articles. - CHAMPION (talk(contributions) (logs) 00:49, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. - CHAMPION (talk) (contributions) (logs) 00:50, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. - CHAMPION (talk) (contributions) (logs) 00:50, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. - CHAMPION (talk) (contributions) (logs) 00:50, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. - CHAMPION (talk) (contributions) (logs) 00:50, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I just glanced at Protests against Donald Trump and it's actually not really that large, unless we're catering to the typical non-existent attention span. Compare it to Political positions of Hillary Clinton, well over twice the size of that article, where concerns about shortening it have consistently fallen on deaf ears. In general, putting this much emphasis on "whatever's in the news today = what's notable about the world" at the expense of the big picture of human knowledge only validates my ongoing WP:NOTNEWS concerns. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 23:14, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Compare this to the recent Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Faithless electors in the United States presidential election, 2016. That article started out as a promotional vehicle for "Hamilton Electors", a slick but shadowy social media campaign masquerading as some sort of political organization. The strong consensus in favor of keeping the article resulted in refactoring it into covering the broader topic, based on a rationale that it was some sort of profound event. Just to give one example, we're a long, long way off from determining if the 2016 Electoral College vote will have the enduring impact of 1972, when Roger MacBride single-handedly jump-started the Libertarian Party by casting his vote for John Hospers instead of Richard Nixon. Of course, it's probably a waste of time to point that out since the mentality of the moment is that the LP owes its entire existence to Gary Johnson, plus in general I'm tired of repeatedly pointing out that this community may lack a clue about "enduring impact" versus the constant array of fleeting "trending topics". Unless this article is similarly refactored or merged, it reads more like advertising for these marches and protests than anything else. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 23:14, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I merged that one to Protests against Donald Trump, as it consisted of just two paragraphs, overlapping with a section of the main article. — JFG talk 11:31, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "far short"?  Have you been listening to "alternate facts" (or have I).  Here is what I found with one Google news search: Newsweek stated, "It also was a much bigger rally than expected..." NorthJersey.com had an article entitled, "Local women's marches draw far larger crowds than expected".  Chicago Sun-Times headlines, "Chicago Women's March crowd bigger than expected"  Los Angeles Times, [1] "In Houston, police estimated the crowd for the women's march had swelled to 20,000 people, much larger than expected."  Unscintillating (talk) 03:22, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Of course we're a bloody newspaper. Try finding an aircraft accident with deaths involved (or sometimes without) that doesn't have an article. Black Kite (talk) 23:47, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So, no supporting rationale? WP:JUSTAVOTE? The closing administrator should disregard comments like this. Neutralitytalk 23:58, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, the Women's March was a part of a bigger worldwide protest that this article should cover. Is my understanding that there were other groups, not just related to women, who also organised protests in response to the inauguration incorrect? - Shiftchange (talk) 19:38, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So we come to today. We have possibly the largest protest ever held in Washington D.C. followed by possibly the largest mass protest across cities in the U.S. and around the world. Even if they don't attain the number one rank of these superlatives, they are close. There is no way these events cannot become historical. Absolutely this is worthy of wikipedia coverage. And these events deserve their own articles. I think the post election protests as a group deserve their own article, which can certainly be expanded upon. I have started such a project in my sandbox, but I just don't have the time to write all the content those potential articles deserve . . . but I know for a fact that it is there. Several protests since November and several today would have sufficient content to merit their own articles. There is THAT much activity. We have an example of how this is done from the Occupy movement series of articles. Not as well done, we had the Tea Party protests, but even their Taxpayer March on Washington has and deserves its own article. Had wikipeda existed, the Protests against the Vietnam War would be much better detailed. Look at how the various Civil rights movements articles are broken down. These historical protests give us a roadmap of what can and should be done with this series of protests. We need the big single article and lots of sidebars, timelines, prose . . . What we don't need are artificial and probably partisan restrictions on what wikipedia can do to document this history in the making before our eyes. Trackinfo (talk) 07:14, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Trackinfo: Are you saying that there needs to be not only a Protests against Donald Trump article, but this Inauguration of Donald Trump protests (presumably under a different name since it's awkward) as a subtopic that's wider than just January 20, and then a 2017 Women's March article (which already exists) that's a subtopic of that, and then a article for each big Women's March that's a subtopic? --Closeapple (talk) 07:38, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No individual editor gets to decide what Wikipedia "must have". Rules and policies about notability, sourcing, due weight and recentism have been enacted following years of collective wisdom. If you find reliable sources commenting on those protests as a whole and not just advertising them, feel free to reference them here. Otherwise, there is nothing to keep. — JFG talk 13:38, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Trackinfo: Unfortunately you faced near-unanimous opposition in the RfC about excessive detail in the Protests against Donald Trump article; this is not a cabal against you or a reflection of partisanship, it's just normal editorial process in building an encyclopedia. If you believe the RfC close was inappropriate, you have a venue to oppose it at WP:CLOSECHALLENGE. — JFG talk 13:43, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Millions of protesters have taken to the streets of cities in the US and around the globe to rally against the new US President Donald Trump. Larger numbers of demonstrators than expected turned out for more than 600 rallies worldwide. I didn't make that up, that's a direct quote from the BBC, presumably unblemished by the partisan divide of the U.S. So you think this is insignificant? This is bigger than the Occupy movement and look at all the coverage we did on that. What I am saying is there is a lot of content to develop on this new series of protests. As I added to the Protests against Donald Trump, there are lots of sources. 600 different rallies are likely to each have several media covering them. I state this with the experience of pulling hundreds of reliable sources for the earlier protests, I know they have to be there. Sourcing each and every one of the 600, plus writing prose takes far more work. The absence of execution of this overwhelming task does not reduce the significance, it reinforces it. Has the U.S. ever seen this much protest? Have any of the presumed smaller protest movements ever had any long term significance, such as the ones I cited above? I am not stating what that significance is, we don't know. None of us do. That happens over time. Citing recentism and news are just ways to try to ignore the history happening before our eyes. Trackinfo (talk) 06:40, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nowhere did I say that this movement was insignificant. I'm just saying it doesn't need 5 different articles and endless details on each individual gathering of protesters. The two articles Protests against Donald Trump and 2017 Women's March are enough. — JFG talk 14:50, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed that at least all of the sister march entries on this list should be removed, as they are duplicated and better suited on the 2017 Women's March page. Funcrunch (talk) 20:01, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • You mean, Trump would have stirred up trouble if Hillary had been elected?  This kind of protest I don't think has happened since Nixon.  Unscintillating (talk) 03:22, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is like nothing that has ever happened before.  This article indicates that 100,000 showed up in 1973, and 20,000 came in 2001.  Just the rally at the Trump Tower in New York (25,000) was larger than anything previous but the 1973 Nixon-inauguration protest crowd.  Unscintillating (talk) 02:39, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Neutrality: No, the rally I cited took place on January 19.  "25,000 Hit The Streets In Massive NYC Anti-Trump Rally Hours Before Inauguration Day" is the citation from Huffington Post.  The lede of List of 2017 Women's March locations states, "The 2017 Women's Marches were a series of political rallies that took place in cities around the world since January 21, 2017."  The NYC Anti-Trump rally or what I called the rally at the Trump Tower was a "massive" rally of 25,000 that exceeded any but the largest previous inauguration day protest.  The Women's Day march in New York City attracted 400,000 two days later.  Unscintillating (talk) 00:20, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.