The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. No comments since the second relisting so I'm going to close this as No consensus as there is disagreement over whether sources are sufficient.

Reading through these comments, I initially thought that a Redirect to List of mayors of Ljubljana would be a compromise but this page is composed of just a list without structure to include any prose content. If that situation ever changes, a bundled nomination of lesser notable mayors to Redirect to that page might be considered in the future. Right now though, there is support to keep this as a standalone article as well as editors who are arguing for an article deletion so we are at a stalemate. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:50, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jurij Viditsch (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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A 17th century Slovenian mayor is hardly notable enough to keep a page here. Although he was mayor of Ljubljana, the capital city of Slovenia, which could be grounds for some notability, no sources exist which make significant mention of his life or do anything more substantial than say his name.

Here are all existing sources I could find about him:

• [1] (which apparently consists of articles from Wikipedia according to this site here)
• [2] (only mentions him once)

The only page on Wikipedia that even makes mention of him is List of mayors of Ljubljana. If it weren't for similarly useless pages about mayors from Ljubljana's history whose pages should be deleted alongside this one, this page would be an Orphan. Fringe, Suspect The (talk) 12:30, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians and Slovenia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:37, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. Slovenia was not an independent country at the time and Ljubljana not a capital. This weakens the case for NPOL. The first source mentioned above is very obviously a Wikipedia collection. Several other mayor articles are in the same dire state, including Horacij Carminelli and other successors. Many of these only duplicate List of mayors of Ljubljana and can be redirected there. In that list, a few other details such as birth and death year can also be added whereever known. Geschichte (talk) 12:46, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Completely agreed. Fringe, Suspect The (talk) 14:12, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: This was all I could find [3]; just not enough sourcing for our needs here. Sourcing now in the article is a list of mayors from the city, not helping notability (and a primary source). Oaktree b (talk) 23:48, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History and Royalty and nobility. Curbon7 (talk) 03:54, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment: The cited source [2] names A) his reelection B) German name: Under "Georg Viditsch" you will find him several listings in google books plus a secondary literature that states that he was judge at Laibach afterwards. Axisstroke (talk) 14:59, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. No more information here than is already given at List of mayors of Ljubljana, which is true of a number of other mayors in that list with similar stub articles that should also go. Celia Homeford (talk) 11:48, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - we should avoid having contemporary notability standards for historical figures for earlier epochs. Just because a person isn't highlighted by contemporary historians doesn't mean he wasn't notable during his time period. The name has different variations, Georg or Jurij, Vidic or Viditsch, probably some other variants in Latin. A mayor of a mayor city in this period wasn't a 'local politician' as we understand it today, that person would have been a person of significant notability. He also served as 'Stadtrichter' of the city. Here we see his heraldic shield. He is mentioned here across story of several pages, but I can't make sense of the Fraktur script, not sure if journalistic account or prose. ([4] mentions a Georg Vidic born around 1540 in Blečji Vrh, as the first known in a genealogical line of Vidic... but DOB doesn't really match our Georg Vidic) --Soman (talk) 12:42, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per Soman. Nvss132 (talk) 11:58, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 20:56, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. He was a town judge, an innkeeper, and a mayor of what is now a capital city of an independent country, so there clearly is historical interest in keeping information on this person. There are in-depth discussions of him in the relevant literature; see e.g. Ljubljana Mayors Through Time (pg. 73). I could agree on having this article merged elsewhere but not on its outright deletion. --TadejM ^{my talk} 13:57, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak Delete. The currently cited sources are short descriptions or lists. There is no WP:SIGCOV on online sources. The source cited by TadejM is also a short description, not in-depth discussion. I would have agreed with Soman on being careful with applying contemporary notability standards for historical figures, however, notable historical figures are still covered in-depth by reliable sources; old, printed ones, if not available online. We don't have proof of those at this time to say the subject merits an encyclopedia article. Prof.PMarini (talk) 01:47, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:SIGCOV: "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention," which is a clear case here. The said article illustrates the person's notability and it is not a trivial mention. There is no mention of 'short description' in the relevant guideline. You may compare this article e.g. to this one that we have decided to keep. I would hope that a historical personality is at least on par with a random sportswoman who got to participate in the Olympics. --TadejM ^{my talk} 05:59, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here (Something about Ljubljana street names and surnames from the early 17th century (according to two new urbaria from 1620-1633)) is another reference that provides further information on Jurij Viditsch (Georg Widitsch) and describes him as a very notable personality for Ljubljana at the time. The article discusses in depth two urbaria composed under Jurij Viditsch. --TadejM ^{my talk} 07:06, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While we shouldn't necessarily apply contemporary notability standards for historical figures, there is no reason to apply it backwards either, i.e. claim that a mayor of a city which is a capital now is equivalent to the city holding capital status then. Re: your other points: Sportspeople that participate in the Olympics are not random, they are meticulously selected - nonetheless a Wikipedia entry about an Olympian is deleted almost every day. So it's a completely flawed analogy Geschichte (talk) 11:07, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you back up these claims with a reference or is it pure speculation? Ljubljana was a major cultural and economic hub at the time as it was the capital of Carniola.[5][6] There is no evidence of a meticulous selection for the said sportsperson in reliable sources. Mayors are selected meticulously too and this mayor pursued a successful career before he was appointed. --TadejM ^{my talk} 11:57, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:07, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.