The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Cirt (talk) 16:55, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Kill stealing[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Lacks any reliable sources and possibly contains WP:ORIGINAL. It asserts a lot of things as Facts without backing up with citations. andyzweb (talk) 18:26, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I've seen this term before. I'm certain that something as a source can be found. It's too prominent an MMORPG topic not to. Chutznik (talk) 19:33, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The title is inherently biased by referring to kill assists as "kill stealing". Also, it's basically a dictionary definition and should be put in Wiktionary instead.--_{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 20:41, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Merge to Griefer per SharkD, due to the inherently negative connotation of the term.--_{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 23:53, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Currently just a dicdef. What's missing are sources that discuss the actual concept, not merely use the phrase. Rhomb (talk) 22:31, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions. MrKIA11 (talk) 15:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Google news search shows some results. [1] is a good one. Google books search has 89 results, some of them relevant to "kill stealing" in games. "Kill stealing" itself gets 31,800 results in a regular Google search, showing a lot of people use that expression. Dream Focus 22:59, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep Mentions in books and in news sources BBC,Cnet Wired clearly show it is a well established and widespread video gaming concept. ¨¨ victor falk 01:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Even if it has received media coverage, there's no exact definition of "kill stealing" because of how POV the subject is. Additionally, to make this more than just a definition/how-to-avoid, one would need to somehow research the history behind the phrase and be able to explain why the subject is important, which in this case is likely impossible. Heavyweight Gamer (talk) 10:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As for history/importance, it has influenced game design in that developers have modified their games specifically to prevent this from happening. This is discussed in the case of EverQuest in one of the linked-to articles. SharkD Talk 08:06, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, neologism unsupported by independent references: neither notable nor verifiable. -- Jelly Soup (talk) 01:19, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong merge (a first AFAIK) - I'm satisfied that the provided sources show that there is a single, consistent definition for the term viz a viz griefing. However, no sources have been provided yet that deal exclusively with the topic, and there's not really enough material to fill anything more than a Wiktionary article. If an article on game terminology exists, then I would suggest merging it there , otherwise merge it with Griefer. SharkD Talk 09:34, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And condense too. There seems to be more material in the article than any of the sources I've looked at. SharkD Talk 08:03, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Merging to Griefer isn't a bad idea. Ganking, Farming and Botting, all game-term articles that were deleted in the past, have had sections of information incorporated into Griefer, or so I understand. -- Jelly Soup (talk) 03:19, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Jelly Soup. JBsupreme (talk) 12:17, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The topic is quite notable, being covered by numerous sources. The rest is a matter of article editing and improvement which is not achieved by deletion. Colonel Warden (talk) 00:01, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But is there anything that explains the origin of the term past that of a dictionary definition?--_{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 01:35, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Its a modern day social phenomenon, and a key reason why some games fail. A major part of any multiplayer game development. I'm sure any books written about how games are made, or social interaction through massive player online games, would mention it. Dream Focus 03:32, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

After reviewing the sources, I would suggest merging it instead, because the practice of kill stealing as described in MMOs is basically griefing.--_{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 23:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, griefing is doing something to make others miserable, because you enjoy bullying them. Kill stealing is something you do simply because you want something, and don't care who it rightfully belongs to. A bully and a thief are two different things, although yes, sometimes bullies take things from you also. Dream Focus 00:05, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it matters why you kill steal -- being a bully or just greedy (are the two even exclusive?) Victims would probably call it griefing if the behavior isn't stopped. SharkD Talk 04:09, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thieving is obviously being a bully, since you're doing it with knowledge that it was someone else's kill and they 'deserved' it. That makes others miserable, and it's griefing, even if it's within the bounds of the game, otherwise it wouldn't be such a phenomenon in the first place.--_{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 04:45, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.