The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was DELETE. postdlf (talk) 04:43, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

List of Forza Motorsport cars[edit]

List of Forza Motorsport cars (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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List of Forza Motorsport courses (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

The concensus at the videogames wikiproject is not to have lists of gameplay items (WP:VG/GL, based on WP:NOT#INFO). Disclaimer: This article brought to my attention at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Gran Turismo cars (2nd nomination). Marasmusine (talk) 09:53, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions. (G·N·B·S·RS·Talk) Marasmusine (talk) 09:53, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete cars unless someone can demonstrate multiple reliable independent sources covering the list itself with critical reception (not just a stand-alone list). The car implementations in the game don't have notability on their own. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 10:00, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete tracks. Same argument -- The track implementations in the game don't have notability on their own, even if the tracks are notable themselves (wp:notinherited). —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 16:07, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• See below As a former maintainer, the size (over 500 entries) is simply too large to track and reliably maintain. Perhaps smaller lists (only cars available in all three base games, only downloadable cars) might be maintainable and relevent, otherwise simply linking to a source of complete car lists provides the same information without our burden to maintain. In addition, tracking the performance value of the car in game is better suited to a dedicated wiki, not WP. Bakkster Man (talk) 17:11, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Cars, Improve Tracks Since the tracks article was added to the discussion after my first comments, I vote to keep the tracks article. While it's clearly fancruft to track what 24 versions of Porsche 911 are in any of the three games in a list of over 500, the track listing is much smaller and maintainable. As well, the tracks (particularly real-world tracks) are of much more importance to the average user, while the model year of the Audi S4 in the game will only be important to the 'hardcore' fans. As well, being a much smaller list, the article is much more easily maintained (nobody needs to cross-reference 3 lists each 200+ entries long to determine if an addition is accurate or not).

If it is agreed that the article is maintainable, the question is whether it belongs. I feel it meets notability guidelines (or, at least the real-world tracks meet the guidelines), so the question is whether another similar list of the entire franchise's track listing exists somewhere else on the internet (GameFAQs, for example). If not, then I believe there may be an argument to leaving it up and improving in order to revisit later. I am moving the list of real-world tracks in each to the main game's articles so the important information would be retained if this article is deleted. Bakkster Man (talk) 15:34, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The size of the articles has no weight in this discussion. We are discussing notability and what Wikipedia is not. Wikipedia is not a game guide for lists of items in video games, regardless of how small or large that list may be. The³5₉ (Talk) 19:34, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I agree with your point of view, though if it were up to me I still might keep the article. That said, I expect that you are right, and such an article doesn't stand on its own. I have moved the important information to the relevent game articles so nothing of value will be lost if the articles are deleted. 13:30, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

• Note I have now added List of Forza Motorsport courses to the AfD - I don't think that will be controversial. Marasmusine (talk) 13:21, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I added the AfD link on that page as well. Bakkster Man (talk) 15:34, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Both articles are WP:FANCRUFT and are not notable enough to stand on their own. The³5₉ (Talk) 19:34, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:21, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.