The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep , with an encouragement to explore a potential split on the talk page. Daniel (talk) 04:48, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

List of Malaysians of Chinese descent[edit]

List of Malaysians of Chinese descent (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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The Chinese listed on this page can only be a part of them, and the Chinese in Malaysia account for a lot, so the category is enough. angys (Talk Talk) 23:16, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. angys (Talk Talk) 23:16, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Malaysia-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 23:36, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete I agree with the nominator - there are far too many notable Malaysians of Chinese descent. This list is far too broad and will never be complete, and the category suffices for organisation. pinktoebeans ^(talk) 13:48, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.

  The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability#Stand-alone lists, which says, "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list." I will show below that "Malaysians of Chinese descent" has been treated as "a group or set by independent reliable sources".
  
  Sources

  1. Ho, Khai Leong (2014). 馬來西亞華人人物誌 [Malaysian Chinese historical personalities] (in Chinese). Petaling Jaya, Selangor: Institute of Chinese Studies, Universiti Tunku Abdul Rahman. OCLC 903533846.

     The book series has four volumes that span 1,838 pages. From the Google Translate of the book's description at https://bookstore.mentor.com.my/product/malaysia-huaren-renwuzhi/:

     "Malaysian Chinese historical personalities" is structured as a biographical book. It recruits and writes Chinese people in Malaya and Malaysia who have had social influence and achievements in the past 100 years. It records their lives and major events that they have experienced, highlighting their responsibilities in their fields. , Participate and contribute, and describe the characters’ ideological sentiment, personality characteristics, and historical status. Its real connotation is a genealogy of the Malaysian Chinese community. The book is divided into "Inner Chapter" with 420 people and "Outer Chapter" with 12 people. The "Inner Chapter" includes people with strong Malayan and Malaysian attributes or who have no objection to their status, such as Chen Zhenlu, Lin Lianyu, Fang Beifang, etc.; while the "Outer Chapter" includes short-term residence in Malaya, and the final identity attribute belongs to China. However, his actions have a certain influence on the local people, such as Huang Zunxian, Yu Dafu, Lin Yutang and so on. This classification is an extremely bold innovation of this book.

  2. Ye, Guanshi, ed. (2010). 馬來西亞華人先賢錄 [The profiles of Malaysian Chinese leaders] (in Chinese). Selangor: 名人出版社. OCLC 864463194. Archived from the original on 2021-07-06. Retrieved 2021-07-07.
  3. Fu, Chengde (2001). 马来西亚成功小故事 (in Chinese). Kuala Lumpur: 大将事业社. Retrieved 2021-07-07.

     The book summary notes: "Anecdotes and accounts of successful Malaysian Chinese businessmen."

  4. 彭成毅 (2018-08-30). Aspinwall, Nick (ed.). "How to Understand the Confusing Spellings of Romanized Chinese Names". The News Lens. Translated by Li, Zeke. Archived from the original on 2020-08-13. Retrieved 2021-07-07.

     The article notes: "Let’s use famous Malaysian Chinese leaders as an example: The founder of Kuala Lumpur and its third Kapitan Cina had the romanized name Yap Ah Loy (葉亞來), following Hakka pronunciation. Tan Hiok Nee (陳旭年) and Wong Ah Fook (黃亞福) took their Latin names from Teoswa/Teochew and Cantonese pronunciation, respectively. The name of Penang’s first Kapitan Cina, Koh Lay Huan (辜禮歡), comes from Hokkien."

  5. Yip, Lynnett (2020-01-02). "From Michelle Yeoh to Lawrence Wong, 10 Malaysian- and Singaporean-Chinese celebrities who are huge stars in China". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2021-07-06. Retrieved 2021-07-07.

     The article notes: "Numerous Malaysian-Chinese and Singaporean-Chinese actors and singers have become huge stars in China. From Malaysia, we are blessed with Ipoh-born Michelle Yeoh of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon fame as well as talented voices like Bahau-born Fish Leong, Ipoh native Michael Wong and Kuching-born Nicholas Teo, all of whom are often thought of as Taiwanese." The article also discusses the Malaysian Chinese people Rujing Yan, Penny Tai, Azora Chin, Gary Chaw, and Lawrence Ong.

  The list might never be complete, which is fine.

  It is fine for the list never to be complete per Wikipedia:WikiProject Lists#Incomplete lists:

  Because of Wikipedia's role as an almanac and a gazetteer as well as an encyclopedia, it contains a large number of lists. Some lists, such as the list of U.S. state birds, are typically complete and unlikely to change for a long time.

  Some lists, however, cannot be considered complete, or even representative of the class of items being listed; such lists should be immediately preceded by the ((Expand list)) template, or one of the topic-specific variations that can be found at Category:Hatnote templates for lists. Other lists, such as List of numbers, may never be fully complete, or may require constant updates to remain current – these are known as "dynamic lists", and should be preceded by the ((Dynamic list)) template.

  For example, List of people from Italy likely never will be complete. It was discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Italians, where there was a strong consensus for retention.
  
  It is fine to have overlapping categories and lists.

  From Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and navigation templates#Overlapping categories, lists and navigation templates are not considered duplicative:

  It is neither improper nor uncommon to simultaneously have a category, a list, and a navigation template which all cover the same topic. These systems of organizing information are considered to be complementary, not inappropriately duplicative. Furthermore, arguing that a category duplicates a list (or vice versa) at a deletion discussion is not a valid reason for deletion and should be avoided. Redirects of list articles to categories are highly discouraged: list articles should take the place of the redirect.

  Consider that lists may include features not available to categories, and building a rudimentary list of links is a useful step in improving a list. Deleting these rudimentary lists is a waste of these building blocks, and unnecessarily pressures list builders into providing a larger initial commitment of effort whenever they wish to create a new list, which may be felt as a disincentive. When deciding whether to create or avoid a list, the existence of a category on the same topic is irrelevant.

  List of Malaysians of Chinese descent and Category:Malaysian people of Chinese descent are "complementary, not inappropriately duplicative".
  
  General notability guideline

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow the subject to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 21:04, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. Cunard (talk) 21:04, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Slightly radical suggestion: Split? Chinese Malaysians account for about 30% of Malaysia's population so one list for all notable people in the group won't do the job. But lists like this have value, as they give one-liner introductions to the listed people. I would split the list into a list of lists by occupation. Deryck C. 21:56, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Lists of Americans and Lists of British people have done splits like what you have described, and the splits have worked well, so I would be supportive of this approach. Cunard (talk) 22:18, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I think the list is fine as it is for the reasons set out by Cunard. There may be a benefit in splitting it at some point in the future though I don’t see the need at the moment, and anyway I don’t think we need discuss that at AfD. Mccapra (talk) 02:30, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• You raise several good points. At the moment, the list is not too long, so it is fine to leave it as is for now and split it at a later time once it gets too long for a single list. I agree that this is a matter for editors to decide at Talk:List of Malaysians of Chinese descent instead of AfD. Cunard (talk) 08:26, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep The nomination is rather incoherent but the gist of it seems to be to favour the equivalent category. This proposal is contrary to our long-standing guideline WP:CLN and WP:NOTDUPE which state that "the "category camp" should not delete or dismantle Wikipedia's lists ... arguing that a category duplicates a list (or vice versa) at a deletion discussion is not a valid reason for deletion and should be avoided." To confirm that that the list passes WP:LISTN see From Michelle Yeoh to Lawrence Wong... and Southeast Asian Personalities of Chinese Descent: Biographical dictionary. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:46, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Cunard,but the list is largely unsourced i recommend users to only add entries of blps with RS or even better self identification.Ratnahastin(t.c) 04:18, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.