The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Withdrawn by nominator as a speedy keep. (Will propose article merger.) – S. Rich (talk) 19:14, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

List of Most Wanted Nazi War Criminals according to the Simon Wiesenthal Center[edit]

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This is a tough one. Basically the article falls under WP:NOTDIRECTORY (#6). We have notable names and "non-notable" redlinked names; and we have dead Nazis, still missing Nazis, tried Nazis (Képíró, found not guilty), and innocent Nazis (Demjanjuk). Basically it is a non-encyclopedic cross-categorization of these people. Appropriate links for the currently missing/perviously provided lists of people should go in the Simon Wiesenthal Center. But supposing this article remains – what should we do when all of them die? Convert the list into a conglomeration of everyone who was once listed? – S. Rich (talk) 02:23, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Further comment by OP. A solution (for those who like the article) is to set up categories for the people listed. Subcategories can handle the still missing, convicted, tried but found innocent, deceased, etc. Of course the category would only contain the names for people who have WP articles. – S. Rich (talk) 03:35, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:38, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:38, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You're not asking the right questions. This is about a real list that exists in the world, and yet you have said nothing about the notability of the list or its significance to the topic of the Simon Wiesenthal Center (to which this list could be merged). I don't see how NOTDIR#6 is relevant to an article about a real list (and the only classification here is "most wanted Nazi War Criminal", not any cross-categorization like "Nazi War Criminals who went to culinary school"), when that section is about trivial or unconnected (t. Nor does the inclusion of non-notable names have any relevance, as if this list is an appropriate article topic there may be informational value in making it complete (again, this is about a real list, not merely a navigational list of WP articles). As for your categorization suggestion, please read WP:OCAT and WP:BLPCAT. If we are to maintain this information here in such detail, we would do it through a list that can be annotated and directly sourced (and if this were "unencyclopedic" as a list, then it also would be as a category; our presentation format cannot change that). postdlf (talk) 14:33, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You are right that these are real life lists (current and past reports). Part of my problem is that the Annual Status Report is actually RS to document who the bad guys are and what has happened to them since 2001/2005. But if this is an article about the list, then all of the names from past lists should be in the article. But then I think WP:NPS applies. It's like an article titled List of famous Hollywood people according to the Academy of Motion Arts & Sciences. What are your thoughts on merging it to List of Axis personnel indicted for war crimes? – S. Rich (talk) 15:50, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Whether the Simon Wiesenthal Center list is factually accurate is a separate and perhaps irrelevant question, if its contents are nevertheless widely reported or notable as a topic. Something like United States State Department list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations is conceptually relevant, in that whether something "is" a terrorist organization is highly politicized and controversial (as is the very label of "terrorist"), but it's obviously verifiable that the State Department has issued that list, the list is notable in that its contents are widely reported and discussed, and details of the list are noteworthy because inclusion of a particular group is of great significance and consequence. So we report here on what the State Dept. list contains regardless of whether they "got it right."

Similarly, it is verifiable that the Simon Wiesenthal Center has identified someone on their list, and in this context it is only their identification we are reporting. Regarding other claims like "last known location", attribution is likewise key (is it the Center itself that is asserting they were last seen in Germany or wherever), and maybe the Center's Report is itself considered a reliable source in the field (i.e., their investigative skills are respected), but such fine-toothed questions about what particular facts go in this article is not for this AFD to decide, but rather a matter for ordinary editing and discussion. I don't know to what degree the Center's list is notable such that it makes sense to give details of the list's contents whether as a stand-alone list or merged somewhere, so let's see what other contributors who have better subject matter familiarity have to say. Though I'm thinking at this point if you're considering the information should go somewhere you don't really have a deletion argument left. postdlf (talk) 17:01, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate the link to the State list. Indeed, it is similar to the "List of Proscribed Terrorist Groups: Home Office of the British government". And it illustrates a point. The State list article is not titled List of foreign terrorist organizations according to the United States Department of State. In both cases (actual and redlinked) the "List of ... according to..." title language does not lend to recognizable naming. Still you are quite right about ATD (you read my mind better than I do). I'll give this AfD a day or two for more input – depending on what we see, I'll probably propose a merger to the List of Axis personnel article and withdraw this AfD. – S. Rich (talk) 16:53, 19 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Simon Wiesenthal Center. This is a one-fact article, really. The Center publishes the List. That's it. The names of people on the list do belong on WP, but because they are (or were) notable wanted Holocaust criminals not because they are/were on the list. Kitfoxxe (talk) 17:56, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.