The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) Pcap ping 10:39, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

List of Spanish words of Italic origin[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Indiscriminate list of words that may have been borrowed from Italian, or may have entered both languages from Latin. The page has no footnotes and a single source (a dictionary). The page is not a glossary per WP:LIST, since it does not present "a small working vocabulary and definitions for important or frequently encountered concepts... useful in a subject area." There is no discussion of language contact or other potentially encyclopedic content; contrary to the lead section, there are no Oscan words in the list.

I am also nominating List of Spanish words of African origin. It also does not meet the definition of a glossary per LIST and does not provide encyclopedic discussion. It cites the same dictionary as a lone source, and also contains no footnotes.

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Cnilep (talk) 17:25, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. —Cnilep (talk) 17:36, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Spain-related deletion discussions. —Cnilep (talk) 17:42, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Compare Lists of English loanwords by country or language of origin Polarpanda (talk) 17:46, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, these open the door to potentially categorizing all words of every language by origin, via lists. Such lists aren't what Wikipedia is for. In addition, no encyclopedic discussion, in contrast to Arabic influence on the Spanish language. -Mairi (talk) 19:12, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Polarpanda raises a good point: what about all of the lists found at Lists of English loanwords by country or language of origin? Why is it that those are encyclopedic, but the Spanish ones are not? When I created both of those pages, all of the entries came from the Diccionario breve that is cited. I don't know what's happened to them in the past 3-4 years, however. Personally, I think the genetics of a language's vocabulary is definitely encyclopedic. If you have doubts about the origins of some of the words on the list, you can deal with those on a word-by-word basis. Deletion is not the answer. The English lists have been on Wikipedia as long as I can remember. I can think of no relevant reason why the Spanish lists should be treated any differently. -- Hraefen ^Talk 00:51, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki to wiktionary, it looks like a wiktionary appendix already, so it should reside there. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 05:52, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep both articles. List of Spanish words of African origin is more developed, but both articles are fine. If you wanted to see a list of words that came from a certain source, this would be helpful. Certainly something an encyclopedia should have. Dream Focus 13:16, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep both; appropriate for an encyclopedia as well as a dictionary. DGG ( talk ) 03:02, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete both. This is dictionary information and excessively trivial as a subarticle of Spanish language. As for Lists of English loanwords by country or language of origin, they ought to be deleted too. Powers ^T 16:13, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The scholarship is suspect. Spanish is an Italic language, since Spanish descends from Vulgar Latin, which is also the parent of Italian. One would have to show that these words are from after the split of Spanish and Italian. But Oscan split off from Latin a thousand years before the Roman Empire. So claiming Italic origin is weird. WP:Synthesis applies here. Abductive (reasoning) 07:16, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as this list has no external source to validate it in accordance with WP:List source. If it is not possible to verify the list's content, or understand how it is defined, then chances are it is original research. --Gavin Collins (talk|contribs) 08:37, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep both, but rename the first to List of Spanish words of Italian origin. – EdvardMunch (talk) 06:12, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 12:06, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I agree that this should be renamed as suggested by Ed Munch. It's a legitimate enough topic, but needs to be sourced and have more context for each entry. I get the concept-- words that got their start in Italian (as opposed to Latin, from which the Romance languages evolved) and then became part of Spanish vocabulary, like "espagueti" (spaghetti). I'm sure that "Italic origin" is probably a linguistic term, but like "Sino-American relations", it's about as timely as a horse-drawn carriage. Most of us think of something else when it comes to "italic" Mandsford (talk) 14:55, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 15:11, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Were it a list of Spanish words of Italian origin, it might mean something. But all of the core vocabulary of Spanish is of "Italic origin", because Spanish, being a Romance language derived from Latin, is itself an Italic language. If kept, move it to a less implausible title. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 15:56, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Default to keep and stop relisting to force a deletion. 7 days is enough time to discuss. Lugnuts (talk)
DeleteList of Spanish words of Italic origin. Random short list of words claimed to be of "Italic" origin. Isn't Spanish derived from Latin, making most of its words eligible for the list (except those borrowed from African, Indian, Asian, Hebrew, etc?) original research and a hopelessly incomplete list until it becomes a listing of many thousands of words. A listing of Spanish words borrowed from modern Italian would be quite a different article and might as well be started from scratch. "Other stuff exists" is not a reason to keep this article. Let other wordlist article have their own day at AFD. Delete the list of Spanish words from Africa, because they mostly came by way of Greek or Latin, and not directly from an African language. Edison (talk) 19:47, 17 February 2010 (UTC) [[[User:Edison|Edison]] (talk) 19:43, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - while I would not keep every list of such borrowed words, these seem to be notable and can be sourced better. Bearian (talk) 21:52, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per abductive reasoning. i really doubt that after removing all words which have a common origin within italic languages, you'd have an article with much in it. and, this would need real scholarship to be justified, as you could not tell from looking at the words whether they were recent borrows or not. if it was borrowed words from, say, chinese, it would be more obvious and thus could fly without references (though it would still eventually need them, of course). Im ok with the african article, though its not great. shouldnt these have separate afd's?Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:02, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.