The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Merging can be dealt with elsewhere. \ Backslash Forwardslash / {talk} 12:50, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

List of characters in SaGa Frontier[edit]

This article is listcruft, and is not wikified, referenced, and does not have any reality-based information. The short character list in the article itself should be enough. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 18:38, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The article reads as a how to guide to the game to me. It could be re written with proper secondary sources (which dont seem to even be there). My worry though is if it were re written with proper sourceing the article would be the same size as the main saga frontier page anyway. I also fear that with these sources which probably would come from a game guide anyway it would still read as a how to guide. Im leaning towards delete but i think theres a possibility to save the article with alot of work if someone knowledgeable to the subject can invest the timeOttawa4ever (talk) 22:07, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions. MrKIA11 (talk) 23:07, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep While the article certainly needs improvement, it is a legitimate spinout from the main article to keep it from growing too long. Edward321 (talk) 05:09, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
comment What exactly is in this list article that makes it too long to be in the main article? As it stands right now everything is unreferenced not verified and written as a how to game guide. The only fix i can see is to (Though again, my subject knowledge on this game isnt high I only played it for 30 mins 10 years ago) reduce the text about the characters to what is in the main article already as noted by the nominator, which makes a merge more appropriate. I think the article needs desperate attention in order to address the concerns raised. Ottawa4ever (talk) 15:45, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: I've come to realize that there's no such thing as a "legitimate" spinout if it doesn't satisfy WP:NOTE, and this article certainly does not. In that case, the content should have been deleted for being non-notable, and as it's definitely somewhere else on the internet, it's no great loss.--_{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 00:58, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to SaGa Frontier, which is currently a little too light on plot. As it stands we currently have Plot of SaGa Frontier and Everything Else, which (IMO) isn't an acceptable state. Suck it up and figure out what parts of the plot are relevant and which aren't; don't just throw every PC into a single list article and call it a day. Nifboy (talk) 00:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to SaGa Frontier. Entirely unreferenced, and reads like original research. The main characters should get their fair treatment in the main article, being backed up by sources, but this is too plot-intense and contains no encyclopedic analysis of these characters. If reliable sources pop up in the future, this list can be recreated from a different vantage point. Them From Space 02:08, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or merge --as long as the content is there it makes not the least difference. Just a matter of editing preference. DGG (talk) 04:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to the parent article, where appropriate. Like a couple others, I don't believe that the main article length is a valid reason to create new articles with unsourced and unverified information. If a main article has too much of it, the proper way of handling it is to tag the suspect information, followed by deleting it out if no one responds in a timely fashion. RGTraynor 10:17, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the text that I added to the article, a contraction of text from the main article: "The seven playable protagonists in SaGa Frontier are an integral part of its ambitious Free Scenario System. There is a separate storyline and a main quest for each one of the characters; some of the main characters even encounter each other, as player character meeting non-player character. - IGN staff (February 18, 1997). "Square, The Final Frontier". IGN.com. Retrieved 2008-12-13." More so than in other such articles, the characters are the story, and the game.
Remember that a 'merge' vote means, a redirect to the main article. This page will still exist, but be blank except for the redirect, the history will still be there, but it can only be accessed by a search for "List of characters in SaGa Frontier". If editors want to take material from this article and add it to the main article, that can easily be done without sinking all that material into a page history. Same with anything one believes to be 'game guide' material; it can be deleted if necessary. A keep vote allows the unhampered improvement of both articles, which seems to be the concern of most voters.
'Not notable' and "it's definitely somewhere else on the internet" are a little contradictory, and the assertion of non-notability, in lieu of evidence, is <validity (logic)> valid but unproven. Anarchangel (talk) 05:39, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.