The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is there are not enough notable entries existing or identified to merit a standalone list at this time. postdlf (talk) 14:01, 22 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

List of nightclubs in Rome[edit]

List of nightclubs in Rome (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Fails WP:NOTDIR, WP:NOTTRAVEL, WP:NOTYELLOW, WP:LINKNO. Entire list consists of external links to night-clubs. Earlier prod contested by a plonker IP who didn't cite any reason Ajf773 (talk) 07:30, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Ajf773 (talk) 08:24, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. Ajf773 (talk) 08:24, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep and develop. There are notable nightclubs in Rome, a major city. Don't let us be played into contending on the wrong material.

The deletion nominator is driven, I suspect, by the wish to address List of nightclubs in Port Harcourt and other lists related to Port Harcourt, Nigeria, that were created in 2014 and are indexed at Template:Port Harcourt lists. I have participated in some other AFDs related to Port Harcourt. Now that I see there are multiple lists of Port Harcourt things, I suggest we deal with those in a straightforward, explicit way, in one AFD about all of them (and at this point I tend to think they should all be deleted). However, let's not get played by the Port Harcourt promoter/provocateur into contesting unrelated legitimate articles started by various unrelated editors. To Ajf773, would you please withdraw this AFD nomination and start one combo AFD about the Port Harcourt items? --doncram 17:47, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The entire list consists of external links and serves no navigational purposes other than a directory which is what Wikipedia is not. None of these list entries have any evidence of any sort that they are notable. I will not withdrawing the AFDs. Whether they are separate AFDs or in a bundle makes no difference to me. You can add your comments to the concerning AFD consensus just like everyone else has to. Ajf773 (talk) 18:00, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Two seconds googling "nightlife in Rome" or "nightclubs in Rome" yields multiple guidebook-type lists, e.g. this Rome Escape one. In fact surely there is a section in every guidebook to Italy about it. The topic of "nightclubs in Rome" has been written about, plenty, so IMO this AFD is dumb. --doncram 05:01, 5 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The 'source' you listed appears to be self-published. Anyone can come up with a bunch of fluff from a Google search, and bombard an AFD pretending a stand-alone list passes WP:LISTN or WP:GNG. However if you read the original reasons why I nominated the article for deletion, it is more than just verifying notability. It also fails a large number of policies under what Wikipedia is not. I can also add WP:NOTLINKFARM to the list. Ajf773 (talk) 06:50, 5 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As at related AFD about nightclubs in Sweden, the deletion nominator seems to fail to understand that wp:AFDISNOTFORCLEANUP. --doncram 17:25, 5 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is for DELETION. Not only cleanup. As if I have not made myself clear enough. Ajf773 (talk) 17:30, 5 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Right, the deletion nominator requests deletion for "reasons" that IMO could possibly justify tagging for cleanup, but which are not reasons for deletion. However, consulting the nominator's "reasons" WP:NOTDIR, WP:NOTTRAVEL, and WP:NOTYELLOW, I see that they do not actually apply, so I would not tag the article with links to them, either. Most current items in the list are presented as external link to individual nightclub webpages (either current or former or webpages under construction); this is easily dealt with by editing and does not require the attention of dozens of AFD editors whose attention is brought here. --doncram 01:52, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WP:LISTN also. There is NOTHING notable about a list of external links pertaining to be a business directory. External links to primary sources are not the same as articles, hence no evidence notability. Removing every list entry (which is what will be happening if this article is kept) ends up an empty list. There is another AFD currently in process (not nominated by me) that I see you haven't added your strong keep commments to: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of night clubs in Lagos

• Delete per WP:NOTLINKFARM and several other policies already mentioned in the nom Spiderone 17:42, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I added a bit at the article, including a Telegraph source about nightlife in Rome. I don't know about nightlife in Lagos, Nigeria, but hey, Rome's nightlife is famous on a world-wide level. Recall that Audrey Hepburn had such a great time going out there that she named it her favorite city. :) The standard for articles here is that the topic need to be notable, covered in reliable sources, which this is. If you dislike the article, add a negative tag or two (of which there are none currently), but this is not for AFD. --doncram 13:13, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Still appears promotional. Converting the external links to references which doesn't offer inherited notability to any of the list entries. And BTW the result of the AFD for Lagos was delete Ajf773 (talk) 17:41, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Duh. I did not say that I obtained reliable sources establishing the article-level notability or even the list-item notability of the nightclubs currently listed. I'll repeat my main assertion, which is what is relevant to the AFD: the general topic of nightclubs in Rome is Wikipedia-notable. This can be established by:

A) Someone providing reliable sources discussing the topic of nightclubs in Rome

B) Existence of multiple articles on individual nightclubs in Rome, which obviously can be listed in a list-article (and categorized, and put into a navigation template if anyone wants to)

C) Reasoning on our own that the topic is notable, because "it is obvious" or more specific assertions: "I know that there are many reliable guidebooks to Rome, and many of them have sections on nightclubs" or "I know that nightclubs in Rome have been depicted in paintings, mentioned in songs, seen in movies, covered in news", etc. None of this requires that a list-article be limited to a mere directory with telephone numbers. Imagine instead a wonderful encyclopedic list, with illustrations and learned discussion and great references.

At least C applies already, and is enough to establish that this AFD should be closed Keep, IMO.

I will taper off in replying to comments. To the deletion-nominator: I get it already that you hate everything about this topic, you don't need to repeat yourself... see if you can refrain from commenting on every single vote or comment by anyone else. :) --doncram 21:10, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. Only one of the entries even has an article. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:12, 20 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete this article is not notable as this article is basically a list of bars.--Jonnymoon96 (talk) 01:28, 20 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.