The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) –Davey2010^Talk 00:08, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

List of the oldest living state leaders[edit]

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List of the oldest living state leaders (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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A non-encyclopedic topic covering the trivial intersection between once being a leader of some country and living into one's 80's. Lack of sources and lack of RS discussing this topic in depth mean the ranking can not be verified. Even if all the data shown is correct (and we don't know if it is) we don't know who is missing making the assertion that x is the nth longest lived impossible to prove. Even if one argues this should be keep against WP:LISTN the longest living ones are already clearly shown at List_of_longest-living_state_leaders making this page redundant and an additional maintenance hassle. Legacypac (talk) 23:53, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Support delete for reasons given above. Qexigator (talk) 23:59, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Support delete for reasons given above. Juan Riley (talk) 01:20, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep list is qualified as encyclopaedic, please see the similar discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of longest-living state leaders. Neve-selbert 02:51, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment FWIW, one concern that I have had about both the article in question and List of longest-living state leaders is the exclusion of non-sovereign state leaders—such as Robert Webster (born 1926), the former Chief Minister of Anguilla. This could be a non-issue, although I am not certain exactly. Neve-selbert 02:51, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep For same reasons that Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of longest-living state leaders was closed as keep. Neither redundant nor a maintenance issue (which in any case is not a valid reason for deletion). DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 03:05, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:07, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:08, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Redundant in that the Top 16 people on this list are on the other list marked in yellow as living (assuming the lists are in sync). Beyond the top 10 to 16, who actually cares about this trivia? Legacypac (talk) 03:22, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per the reasons the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of longest-living state leaders AfD was kept and per the above comments. This is a clearly defined list with inclusion criteria of notable individuals easily meeting WP:SAL. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 08:09, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep as per previous arguments. Star Garnet (talk) 08:20, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Same reasons as previous users. HeadlessMaster (talk) 13:58, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and (removed extended personal attack-comment on content not other editors) The list of the oldest living state leaders is a list that was wished from a lot of users for a long time. It was a lot of work to build an Its absolutely useful to keep track with the lives and deaths of state leaders around the world and a plattform to find death dates and keep Wikipedia as a whole up to date and as complete as possible and this in the clearly relevant field of rulers and state leaders worldwide. (Extended personal attack).--Dangermouse600 (talk) 15:40, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Has Legacypac the right to delete more than the half of my comment only because he can't face the truth? Currently he vandalizes the governors list. This list was decided to KEEP. Since then he has deleted more than three quarters of the content without consensus. Next step is a new AfD because this little content needs no own article and could be found elsewhere?--Dangermouse600 (talk) 13:29, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It is perfectly reasonable to require sources - start with he top 25 on the list please. It is unreasonable to make assertions that someone who lived into the 80s is the oldest anything without any sources. Legacypac (talk) 13:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Keep as per previous arguments and as said by Star Garnet it is defined list with inclusion criteria of notable individuals. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 02:58, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, or remove rankings. Unless a source is found for the list, it's original research. It's easy to show that Telmo Vargas is 103 years old, but what reliable source says he's the oldest living state leader? It's even harder to show that Walter Scheel is the 10th oldest living state leader. If someone wants to verify the ranking, how should they do so without somehow enumerating and researching every state leader (which itself is a nebulous term)? Pburka (talk) 19:09, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • What do you mean, "remove rankings"? Even if we remove the rankings, the article is still going to show their ages and birthdays, as these are objective and verifiable information. And ages and birthdays are comparable and orderable, so it's still going to be possible to order them by age. JIP | Talk 17:32, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes but it is not a list of THE oldest state leaders, but rather a list of some old state leaders. Legacypac (talk) 23:15, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

For sure its a list of THE oldest state leaders. Its compiled of every known state leader from various sources. You are free to find someone older. --Dangermouse600 (talk) 00:10, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't engage in OR to discover Trivia. You need RS to tell us these are the oldest state leaders and there are none. Legacypac (talk) 00:22, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a reliable source to support the claim that this list include every known state leader? If not, you're effectively admitting that the list is WP:OR. Pburka (talk) 01:01, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep based on the same argument I made at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of longest-living state leaders: while I understand the rationale here, there does seem to be enough interest from third-party sources to justify an article on this topic. Canadian Paul 17:06, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Support/delete Per the nominator's argument. The list's veracity is uncertain and, even if it weren't, the list provides no new information, nor displays information in a way that reveals anything new. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 17:24, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, based on the argument over keeping List of longest-living state leaders. -- GoodDay (talk) 18:46, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, based on the arguments of User:Neve-selbert and User:Dangermouse600 (minus the personal attacks), and on the arguments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of longest-living state leaders. JIP | Talk 21:08, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep as per previous arguments Lancelot (talk) 07:53, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.