- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. I'm closing this discussion as No consnsus but I think a sensible outcome would be a Merge to Lynn Carey now that it looks like that article will be kept. But I don't see a consensus for this as a closure. Liz Read! Talk! 00:59, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Mama Lion (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NBAND. Sources only mentioned in passing. Don't appear to have any charted or had a significant impact. Mdann52 (talk) 11:52, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Those are a few minor gig announcements for this band, a few gig announcements for a different band, and a couple about lions in a zoo. Not useful for our purposes. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:51, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 14:53, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:36, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - I recommend notability discussions for band members Lynn Carey and Neil Merryweather too. Both articles are based on long histories that really happened but were rarely reported upon, and are written like fan biographies. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:48, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - They really existed and released a couple of albums, but unfortunately I can find little evidence that they received significant and reliable media coverage during their time. The current citations are for a one-paragraph album review, placeholders with no info in AllMusic, and a brief mention of a song being placed in a movie. They were mentioned occasionally in laundry lists of bands that worked with certain producers or at certain studios ([1], [2]), and a controversial album cover comes up sometimes in books about other controversies ([3]). In the Internet era they have a few bloggy notices of the "lost classic" variety ([4], [5]). Alas, I simply can't find enough reliable info with which to build an encyclopedic and biographical WP article. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Probable Keep, at worst a merge to Neil Merryweather (which should survive these proceedings). The article already cites a short but independent Billboard review from 1972, and they also were covered by Penthouse contemporaneously ([6]) and Ink 19 more recently ([7]). That's enough for this to no longer be about AfD and instead to be about ATD. Chubbles (talk) 05:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Both proposed Merge target articles are also the subjects of AFD discussions so they are not ideal Merge target article candidates. Liz Read! Talk! 20:53, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist, please see my comments about proposed Merge target articles which have also been sent to AFD. Right now, I don't see a consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 01:47, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete: Not enough reliable WP:SIGCOV. @Chubbles:: your penthouse link does not work, except for stating it was found once, which may as well be a namedrop. Ink19 does not look reliable. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 17:54, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The Penthouse link works here and the snippet view indicates substantial discussion of the band. Ink19 hasn't been subject to a formal discussion at RSMUSIC, but it is a longstanding publication I have used frequently for independent verification. Chubbles (talk) 02:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete I wouldn't count on either of the two merge targets meeting BLP sourcing standards to keep. I've just asserted delete on both; between them there was a single applied reliable source (from an encyclopedia). BusterD (talk) 12:06, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I think this argument misunderstands encyclopedias as independent sources; I've noted as much on the Neil Merryweather AfD. Chubbles (talk) 04:42, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- It was the other page which had the single encyclopedia source (with which you are defending a BLP page with vast sections of unsourced stuff). This article has nothing approaching multiple independent reliable sources which directly detail the subject. Which is our notability standard. Delete. BusterD (talk) 14:43, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment An alert editor found a whale of coverage for Lynn Carey, the lead singer of this band, in old newspapers. Redlinking this title is downright foolish with that new information, and it suggests that people are not digging very hard for information on this fifty-year-old band and its musicians before punching "delete". Chubbles (talk) 04:50, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Lynn Carey looks more likely than not to survive its AFD. Deletion of Mama Lion would therefore be a violation of the Wikipedia policy WP:ATD. Mama Lion should be redirected to possibly be WP:HEY'ed at a later date. Note: I chose Carey as a target over Merryweather because she was the "Mama" of the band. Geschichte (talk) 05:51, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - as it's likely that many good references can be found for this article.Rockycape (talk) 02:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Great assertion. Do you have ANY proof or sources to add? BusterD (talk) 14:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- As this band was pre-internet there is a need to go looking through paper print archives such as archives of reputable magazines of the time. Also I do think it's interesting that there were 199 individual listeners over the last month alone to Mama Lion on the streaming music service that I happened to look at. Rockycape (talk) 02:40, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. Alternatively, merge and redirect to Lynn Carey per Chubbles and Geschichte. --Un assiolo (talk) 19:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.