The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep per WP:SNOW.. Smashvilletalk 15:00, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

March 1[edit]

March 1 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
March 2 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
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per explicit violation of WP:NOT. These are just days in a year, any year. These articles appear to be by their very nature trivial and are, without exception, indiscriminate collections of information about coincidental events "on this day in history". Each also contains a list of births and deaths of people with otherwise no connection with each other. Most notable individuals and events already have their own articles, and I suggest few would be motivated to find out what else happened (hypothetically) on the day of the Lindbergh kidnapping, or on the day Roger Daltry was born. This series of articles is logically the least likely route for individuals to search for an article except to fulfil WP:INTERESTING, or to earn Greg's Sewer cover barnstar. Ohconfucius (talk) 03:51, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I should have said 'good faith' instead of 'joke' - see below. - Richard Cavell (talk) 05:00, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment No joke. Failing WP:N is not the grounds I cite for deletion, but the whole list of total coincidences which each of these lists represent. Ohconfucius (talk) 05:13, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, actually useful. As in, being actually used.
Page views for selected dates for October 2008
Page views for March 5, by month
  • January 2008 - 14,351
  • February 2008 - 16,961
  • March 2008 - 65,252
  • April 2008 - 17,218
  • May 2008 - 16,930
  • June 2008 - 15,468
  • July 2008 - 5,067 (only half the month seems to be available)
  • August 2008 - 14,253
  • September 2008 - 12,035
  • October 2008 - 11,610
So for the first ten months of 2008, at least 190,000 page-views for March 5, not counting the few thousand redirects from '5 March', 'March 05', etc., just for one page. Certainly more objectively useful than Australian Research Council, Julian Vereker, Public Housing Estates on Tsing Yi Island or even Mass versus weight. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 10:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good point about the WikiProject. I've also notified WP:TIME. Cosmic Latte (talk) 04:49, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Absolutely! What is bad faith about it - facts linked by coincidences constitute indiscriminate information? If anyone can demonstrate that they are not coincidences, I'll withdraw the nom. In the meantime, perhaps some among you believe my proposal will be quoshed by your canvassing and save me the trouble of withdrawing, fine. Let me point out that consensus is everywhere, and AfD is as valid and common a place for seeking it. Ohconfucius (talk) 05:13, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is that what’s going on here? Canvassing? So we get a quick gang-rape in the showers? Let’s give this some time and see how the voting goes. Greg L (talk) 05:25, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • He's merely pointing out that if you choose to ignore the argument he's given--which you're implicitly doing--WP:IAR does, indeed, trump the other bits of alphabet-soup you've dredged up. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 10:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is the 'ideal' group of articles to nominate for deletion in batch, and I true that I could have done March or January, so yes, the choice was initially arbitrary. I am no stranger to mass deletions and have succeeded in same before (for example here and here). If this succeeds, then the remainder will be tackled in good time. For all this screaming of blue murder, there is still no coherent argument why this series needs to be kept, as projects cannot live outside policy. Ohconfucius (talk) 05:30, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • There have been several, but you've chosen to ignore them. You've certainly pointedly ignored the rebuttals to your rather vague rationales.--CalendarWatcher (talk) 10:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Having a point is not the same as trying to make a point. It's a sincere nomination, so please try and defend the series of articles on its own merits. ;-) Ohconfucius (talk) 05:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Precisely. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/August 1, 2003 is a good-faith nomination and so is this one. Please desist with the accusations of bad faith and stick to making arguments that persuade others to your way of thinking; you may well need it as other editors come here to register their votes. These lists of random, disconnected trivia are going to need a lot of good arguments to defend them because they don’t have much in the way of socially redeeming value that I can see. The information they contain should be organized into articles like August 2003 or August 1, 2003.

    Right now, we have “July 20, 80,000 BC: Man invents fire” and “July 20, 1969 AD: Man sets foot on the Moon.” They have no connection whatsoever other than the date. Greg L (talk) 05:44, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Given the absurdity of the given reasons, the attempting at making a major and drastic attempt to eliminate several hundred pages, and the strong suspicion that this is all part of that peculiar crusade to eliminate any and all date linking on Wikipedia--those crusaders seem well represented here--then yes, I'd say implying bad-faith is not only accurate, but warranted. And you'll have to do better than WP:IDONTLIKEIT. I'd also advise you use real examples instead of absurd ones made up from whole cloth. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 10:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Citing WP:POINT is equivalent to citing a bad-faith nomination, as the nom is presumably being disruptive. I also disagree with that. MuZemike (talk) 08:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dates are inherently notable, and notable things happen to happen on these notable dates; sometimes these notable things even add to these dates' notability. That's a lot of notability. So what if these notable dates are the only things that "connect" the notable events thereon? Cosmic Latte (talk) 06:19, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment My bad. Does that invalidate the nomination? Let's have arguments about the merits of the articles. Ohconfucius (talk) 05:58, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm unsure that Rubin is correct in that assertion. The WP-wide practice trumps a WikiProject nicety. Tony (talk) 07:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not when the WikiProject is solely about maintaining those articles. But I could be wrong. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 08:17, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment walled garden is a term which is coming to mind. Only difference is that these are all overlinked from other articles. Ohconfucius (talk) 08:29, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry. I guess being mandated by an established WikiProject is not a speedy criterion. I'd think it should be, but it's not (at least at present). — Arthur Rubin (talk) 08:44, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I fully agree that this degree of conflict with an established WikiProject (already built up through consensus) should be grounds for a speedy keep. The success of this AfD would essentially destroy the WikiProject, and it strikes me as uncivil (c'mon, WP:AGF) outrageous to start, or at least not to withdraw the nomination for, such an AfD without prior discussion with the WikiProject (given that the nominator is aware of the project's existence). Cosmic Latte (talk) 09:19, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is the term 'walled garden' coming to mind, since it's not the least bit applicable? --CalendarWatcher (talk) 10:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Every single person on this planet has to deal with birth, death, food, water, oxygen, and (except for some people with unfortunately short lives) March 1. Dates of the year are things that everyone, everywhere confronts every year of their lives. Dates are things that people more than a few years old recognize by name. Each one of them has occurred thousands of times in recorded history. They are an integral part of history. They are inherently notable. This AfD is, with all due respect, absurd. Cosmic Latte (talk) 08:52, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • From the top of the [[speedy keep page: 'It is a generally accepted standard that editors should' [emphasis mine] attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense [emphasis mine] and the occasional exception. '
But regardless of any attempt to invoke bureaucracy as a way to denigrate an opinion, I stand by my !vote: this is attempt to avoid wide scrutiny for a massive--and entirely unwarranted--change. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 10:14, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Aha! The mere fact that these articles are linked from the main page, in fact, appears to constitute a reason for a Speedy keep. See this AfD for precedent. Methinks it is time to close this AfD--or shall we take seriously the possibility, however remote, of sabotaging both Wikipedia:WikiProject Days of the year and the main page? Cosmic Latte (talk) 13:03, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually, per criterion #6 of WP:SK, these articles must be speedily kept (unless someone wants to make the contrived argument that #6 doesn't apply because it's currently November). Cosmic Latte (talk) 13:17, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per above. Whether we like it or don't like it, the Wikipedia format for linking dates to articles is to say "November 12, 2008" instead of "November 12, 2008". It is what it is. This discussion was a spinoff of the discussion concerning deletion of August 1, 2003 and other articles, where GregL and Ohconfucius suggested that the current format is unsatisfactory. To answer the question about why one discussion is different from the other, the difference is that the "August 1, 2003" group is a departure from the rules, while the "March 1" group is consistent with the rules. I have no complaints about Greg and Confucius bringing up the subject for discussion, in the course of which folks now know that they can join the discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Days of the year. It's kind of like what Joe Friday said when he arrested someone for possession of marijuana --- if you don't think it should be illegal, work on changing the law; until then, don't fault me if I'm enforcing the law. Just my opinion, ma'am. Mandsford (talk) 14:08, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since I personally found your 'concerns'--and your characterisation of the pages--to be groundless in the extreme, you will find no assistance from myself. Perhaps you can move elsewhere with your crusade. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 14:56, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.