The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Article can be restored to draftspace if more reliable, secondary sourcing is unearthed. czar 04:29, 31 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Michael McCavish[edit]

Michael McCavish (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Non notable aikido instructor. None of the sources given indicate the notability required in WP:BIO, and I couldn't find any better ones. Fram (talk) 15:33, 14 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Subject is only mentioned in passing in most reliable sources and the page's current references. I was also unable to find additional sources for verification and notability. Meatsgains (talk) 16:15, 14 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 17:21, 14 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I saw this article recently created and fixed it up a bit. I think we should give it a bit of a chance to grow as in the Shodokan world he is very notable. I would hope his World Championship Gold result (Virginia 2000 among others) and teaching (British National team) background would help but we definitely need to find better references.Peter Rehse (talk) 17:46, 14 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, the Shodokan Aikido world championships are held in odd-numbered years and have never been held in Virginia. Is my info incorrect? If you have independent coverage showing he was a world champion, it would help his case for notability. Papaursa (talk) 04:00, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Both Papaursa and Peter Rehse are correct.Usually world championships are held in odd-numbered years however the JAA U.S.A held a tournament in Virginia which was held in 2000. It was billed as The Friendship Games and contstants from around the world took part. The members of the Shodokan community thought of it as a World Championships but it was not billed as such. However the competitors did include the then current world champion from the U.S Manny Vargas as well as the then current Japanese champion Kinoshita. Mccavish won the Gold medal in the randori ( fighting style) and then also won the Gold medal in the Freestyle kata. I found reference to him also winning a team gold medal at the Leeds World Championships in 2003. The internet is also littered with references to medalists thanking Mccavish for his instruction. Within the Shodokan community it is clear that he is a senior figure. He teaches aikido for free and does so in a variety of languages; according to one source he speaks 7 languages.I agree with Peter Rhese that we should allow this article to continue for a while. I believe he is also one of the coaches called upon to teach the British National Squad.If anyone has any more information about this I think that would also be of use.777Metatron777 (talk) 16:17, 18 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Since it wasn't an actual world championship event it doesn't carry the same weight. I also don't know how American Manny Vargas could have been the reigning world champion for this event in 2000 when it's claimed the first non-Japanese world champion was in 2003[1]. It does appear he was part of the Japanese team that won a team event in 2003, but being a team champion in an individual sport is less impressive to me--especially when it appears all competitors were from either the BAA or JAA. The article doesn't show any significant independent coverage of him and my own search didn't find any. I'm withholding my vote for now, in the hopes that additional coverage can be shown. Papaursa (talk) 03:41, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment This appears to be one of those cases where what I call "real world notability" conflicts with WP notability. Some aikido practitioners I know think well of him, but no one has been able to produce any significant independent coverage of him. His name doesn't appear in the Aikido Journal or any other MA publications I can find. He does appear to have been on a world championship winning team, but even that is diminished by the fact that it was for a relatively new version of aikido (and even that split into two factions) and the event was for only one of those. Plus those "world" championships seem to be have been contested by only two teams. If the martial arts weren't so fragmented with so many "world champions", it would be easy to say WP:NSPORTS is met. Meanwhile, the lack of coverage means WP:GNG is not met. I think this is a close call. Papaursa (talk) 03:44, 5 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I found this article useful as just attended a seminar by McCavish Sensei in Spain. And I wish we can find out more about him, I now that now he teach at shodokan Spain clubs in Malaga. I think who teaches ins many countries is notable enough for a wikipedia entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel Gonzalez Toledo (talk • contribs) 22:52, 6 December 2016 (UTC) — Daniel Gonzalez Toledo (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

• Move to Draft instead for now as a solution given the fact not only is the last Keep above from SPA, since it's found he's not independently notable at this time. SwisterTwister talk 04:37, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.