The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. I think the consensus here is that this article should be Kept but also that major work is needed to improve the article. That can be done after this AFD closure through regular editing which I encourage those advocating Keep to dive into. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:49, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Muhammad Ali in media and popular culture[edit]

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Another mostly unreferenced violation of WP:IPC/MOS:POPCULTURE ("Sections with lists of miscellaneous information such as "trivia" sections should be avoided"), i.e. pretty random and mostly unreferenced list of media mentioning Muhammad Ali ex. "The band Fever 333 references Ali in one of their songs, titled "Burn It."" or "Pixar's Soul when 22 mentions that Ali was previously a mentor to her, with a flashback of him calling her a pain.", or random stuff like "The character of Killerbee/Kirabi from the manga and anime series Naruto seems loosely based on Muhammad Ali," - note lack of references, i,e, violation of WP:OR), and there is even stuff that's has pretty much zero reference to popculture, such as "organizations named after/dedicated to him" like "Muhammad Ali Parkinson Center at the Barrow Neurological Institute in Phoenix, AZ—One of the world's largest dedicated Parkinson's Centers." This is the usuall mess, created in 2007 by moving trivia content from the main article io a subarticle, and it is unlikely it can be saved. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:37, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Popular culture and United States of America. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:37, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment While there is a lot of the kind of content which could be seen as being in violation of WP:IPC, there's a lot that isn't. This topic is notable in itself as it has plenty of in-depth, independent, and reliable coverage, such as articles on this topic specifically in multiple top tier international publications. Plenty of the information is referenced and free from WP:OR issues. It's unclear to me why exactly deletion would be a more appropriate course of action than improvement. Chagropango (talk) 10:44, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Boxing-related deletion discussions. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 03:03, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and clean up. Move everything that is unsourced to the talk page for sourcing. There are certainly notably sourced instances. BD2412 T 17:04, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Needs to be cleaned up and have more citations added, but this is actually a useful article about a major historical figure.--SouthernNights (talk) 18:52, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ITSUSEFUL is not a very good argument. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:08, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I do not believe this is in line with WP:TRIVIA. -
GizzyCatBella🍁 05:21, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:22, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Question How many are things that have links to their own articles? Is it enough to justify a list? Some major pruning may be in order. Dream Focus 12:18, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep while the nom has demonstrated that much of the content may be inappropriate, there has been no serious argument that nothing about Ali from this is worth keeping or that no regular editing could fix this list. Thus, regular editing is preferable. Jclemens (talk) 19:48, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Clean-up to start, and maybe rename. It's easy to see how major figures would have loads of books written about them. The right treatment for Ali may be similar to Bibliography of George Washington for example. Going too far with the scope allows people to insert all kinds of unreliable material and WP:TRIVIA and this article is suffering for that. Jontesta (talk) 00:39, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This is valid supplementary list to page Muhammad Ali. Yes, such lists should be minimized or avoided in the main page about the subject, i.e. Muhammad Ali. This supplementary list allows doing just that. This is not just "trivia", but indeed a page about his appearance in media and popular culture, which is by itself a valid subject. Yes, the page probably needs a lot of fixes. My very best wishes (talk) 21:47, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Ali's popularity and media presence are undeniable. Of course he's a major subject in many books. I would say this article certainly needs some cleaning-up and I would be inclined to get rid of anything that isn't directly linked to a source. There's already a section on this topic in the article on Ali, but I think putting all of this article's content into the main article would be too much clutter. For that reason, I'm not opposed to an article on this topic but it needs improvement--and some pruning of trivia. Papaursa (talk) 22:57, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Of course, pruning and clean up can occur before this discussion is closed.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:09, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.