The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

NASCAR on television and radio

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The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Esolo5002 (talk) 22:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)‎[reply]

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I am also nominating the following related pages because [insert reason here]:

~~NASCAR on television in the 2000s~~ (this article was never tagged with AFD

WP:NOTTVGUIDE applies here. Just another case of WP:LISTCRUFT to appeal to nobody but the small minority of ardent fans; another excessively bloated list that is fit for Fandom but is it encyclopaedic for here? The subjects are not described as a group, failing WP:LISTN. Additionally WP:NOTDATABASE and WP:ROUTINE. Also, most of the sources are YouTube videos, primary sources, press announcments and do not help to assert notability. SpacedFarmer (talk) 17:35, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television, Motorsport, and Lists. SpacedFarmer (talk) 17:35, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:55, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I wish to pull NASCAR on television and radio off that list and keep the rest in. In the case of WP:ATD, merge the rest of the nominated lists to that article. SpacedFarmer (talk) 17:29, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete List of NASCAR broadcasters as being trivial and WP:LISTCRUFT, but the others I am neutral due to the lack of knowledge on my part of whether WP:ROUTINE applies to broadcasting deals. Conyo14 (talk) 19:15, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It's extremely subjective to flat out say that an article on NASCAR such NASCAR on television and radio appeals to nobody but the small minority of ardent fans. That's almost implying that NASCAR is simply a niche, fringe, cult-like sport even though its races are regularly broadcasts on major television networks like Fox and NBC. The Daytona 500, which is the biggest and most important race of the year, as in itself, been televised since at least 1960 (over 60 years now) and live from start to finish since 1979 (which is almost 50 years now). So it goes without saying, that NASCAR has always been on major network television in some shape or form since the latter half of the 20th century. Also, what exactly does it mean that press announcements and primary sources don't help assert any notability despite being "official" and therefore, presumably, "legitimate"? There are currently, 26 different sources in that particular article. The section with the Historical Race Network Table, is in particular, heavily detailed and color coded. So naturally, there's been a lot of effort and care placed in the NASCAR on television and radio article up until now. So why exactly should that just completely go to waste? BornonJune8 (talk) 10:18, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it's popular with Americans and nobody can dispute that but do we need a fancrufty list of who commentated who on Wikipedia? This argument is about the usefulness of such list per WP:USEFUL as you try to imply. As I said, most of these source are now dead. This list is fit for Fandom, not Wikipedia; I recommend you go there and start your own page there. SpacedFarmer (talk) 11:26, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@SpacedFarmer: I know you're interested in deleting List of NASCAR broadcasters the most of all these. Since, the sources on NASCAR on television and radio are reliable (again, not sure if the content applies to WP:SIGCOV), perhaps you could separate the list and the "NASCAR on television in the XXXXs" articles into their own AfD, thereby creating two separate AfDs. This is only a suggestion as I have !voted already to delete the list article, but remain neutral on everything else. Conyo14 (talk) 17:45, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think they should merged into one. SpacedFarmer (talk) 19:02, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SpacedFarmer: Why are you seemingly limiting this to Americans when discussing NASCAR's overall popularity, appeal, and/or reach? NASCAR is an international sport as evidence by this particular page on its official website. So it goes without saying that if it's holding events in places like Mexico, Canada, Brazil, and Europe, than it can't on the most strict of terms, by solely defined as an "American sport". NASCAR overall, is said to currently be broadcast in 195 countries and 29 languages. In 2024, the Daytona 500 was said to air in more than 185 countries and territories and reaching over 550 million households worldwide. In 2022 by itself, NASCAR signed a broadcasting rights agreements with Fox Sports Mexico and Bandeirantes in Latin America. BornonJune8 (talk) 8:31, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
Again, you are drifting this off subject. I don't need you to argue how popular NASCAR is to the world. In fact, only a tiny portion of motorsport fans outside North America watch NASCAR, any coverages of it is limited to cable. Why? I used to be one of those. I live in Europe and NASCAR was and is still and will never be popular at all compared to F1. Now back to the subject of this AfD, the point of this AfD is not about popularity of NASCAR and BS reach to the world. It's about this list being of encyclopaedic nature. This list would had passed in 2004 but c'mon, this is now 2024, times has changed. SpacedFarmer (talk) 09:56, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey watch your tone there, stereotyping countries is not part of Wikipedia's foundations. I suggest you strike your comment. Conyo14 (talk) 14:57, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Removed it. SpacedFarmer (talk) 15:41, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep all except List of NASCAR broadcasters, which probably works better as a category. Lots of sourcing for NASCAR on television. Esolo5002 (talk) 16:16, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SpacedFarmer: With all due respect, it sounds like you're seriously contradicting yourself when you tell me that you don't need to argue how popular NASCAR is to the world and yet in the same breath say that only a tiny portion of motorsport fans outside North America watch NASCAR. And then you boldly say that it is and still will never be popular at all compared to F1 and that its reach to the world is "BS". I'm not strictly talking about Europe mind you, when I discuss its international broadcasting reach. BornonJune8 (talk) 12:33, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

NB: This user has a history of exclusively targeting my AfD with a keep vote, despite how weak they are. This was because I nominated one of his article for AfD. SpacedFarmer (talk) 07:59, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't descend into pettiness and casting aspersion. This decision will be based on consensus and the strength of arguments not who dislikes who. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:43, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

25 additional sources have just been added to the NASCAR on television in the 1960s article, bumping the current total to 48. BornonJune8 (talk) 11:30, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Confusing, potentially disruptive mass nomination based on a rationale basically covered in WP:IDONTLIKEIT ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 00:46, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
IDONTLIKEIT? What are you talking about? Speak English? SpacedFarmer (talk) 20:40, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Will wish to withdraw this nomination to renominate it again, given that one of it was not been nominated by mistake. SpacedFarmer (talk) 20:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.