The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 18:22, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pepperwood Grove, California (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Another Lake County locale with a lack of info. In this case it is heavily masked in searching by the far more famous coast redwood grove. What's there is a line of houses by Clear Lake, piers across the road extending out into the water. It doesn't seem notable. Mangoe (talk) 02:20, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• That might be because, once again for GNIS, the coördinates are wrong, like they were for Acodale, Virginia (AfD discussion). Bing Maps has the actual Pepperwood Grove about 1km further north at 39°03′59″N 122°46′53″W / 39.06639°N 122.78139°W / 39.06639; -122.78139, which is just one digit different (a 5 for a 2) from the GNIS data, and which has inland streets. I found a book (Donoghue 2003, p. 24) stating that this was a CDP in 1990, population 661, distinct from Lucerne to the north, which makes it odd that Rambot (talk · contribs) and Ram-Man (talk · contribs) never gave it to us; unless it had stopped being a CDP by 2000. If it was in the 1990 census, it could probably be expanded, like Lucerne, Lake County, California in fact was.
  • Donoghue, Ellen Mary (2003). "Appendix". Delimiting Communities in the Pacific Northwest. General technical report PNW. Vol. 570. U.S. Department of Agriculture, Forest Service, Pacific Northwest Research Station. doi:10.2737/PNW-GTR-570.
• Uncle G (talk) 05:31, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, that's decidedly odd, because the reason GNIS puts the spot where it does is because that's where it is on the topos, whereas the spot by Lucerne is never labelled, though it certainly would have been far more likely to have had 661 residents than the GNIS location. I'm not sure what to make of Donoghue's paper. For one thing, it doesn't give any locations, and for another, it is not at all clear how the various places listed actually appear in the 1990 census. Mangoe (talk) 14:01, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, it's not all adding up for me, either. Bing Maps sources from here.com and several other data scrapers do the same, with a pin for the GNIS location and the actual map showing the name to the north. At the The National Map, USGS topographic maps say one thing, USA topographic maps say another. I checked local newspaper the Lake County News, but that couldn't even decide whether it was Pepperwood Grove, in official releases, or Pepperwood Cove, in other reporting. And the road sign south of the settlement with the streets says "Welcome to Lucerne". This is hopeless. We don't even verifiably know where and what this place is, let alone have a decent source for in-depth information on it. Uncle G (talk) 15:39, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • I don't think the paper necessarily supports that it was a CDP. The Pepperwood Grove mention in the paper is in a list of block group aggregations, which is defined in the PDF as The approach was developed to provide an alternative to more commonly used geographic delimitations of communities, specifically census places. It was designed to represent a greater percentage of the rural population than would be represented by using census places So I'm not sure that Donoghue is necessarily supporting that this has official recognition, although I may be misreading this. Newspapers.com brings up a reference to an illegal cow slaughter at a "Pepperwood Grove area" in Mendocino County, as well as the redwood grove and a lot of hits for a brand of wine. 1978 Lake County flood insurance document only mentions Pepperwood Grove as appearing on a map, well south of Lucerne. My rural internet is crapping out again, so that's the end of my searching on this for awhile, but I'm not seeing notability here. Hog Farm _Talk 17:31, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • Found this, related to modern air quality alerts, but I'm going to have to say delete on this one. There's just not enough clear coverage about this to even began to attempt to write a verifiable article. FWIW, the news article I linked includes a map that shows two Pepperwood Groves. As it stands, this is just a mess with verifiability issues. Hog Farm _Talk 01:28, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 07:44, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 07:44, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. No post office. I also found hits in newspapers.com for wine and a location in Humboldt County. JSTOR returns four articles, one about mayflies, one about wine, and two that mention the location in Humboldt County. GBooks returns hits for wine and the location in Humboldt. Searching GBooks for ' "pepperwood grove" lucerne ' returns fewer hits, all of which are trivial. I did not find anything that indicates that this locale is a CDP. As this locale has no legal recognition and at best very trivial coverage, neither #1 nor #2 of WP:GEOLAND are met. Cxbrx (talk) 06:11, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.