The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus; default to keep. Johnleemk | Talk 15:18, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Philippine Cyberservices Corridor[edit]

Delete for two reasons. One, this is definitely already a promotional article, no matter how one salvages it, and wikipedia is not a promotional tool. The corridor is not even notable. There are so many tech facilities spread out all over the country, the whole country is a corrider? The Philippines also does not have a high technology district, that can be compared to Silicon Valley, even just in notability. Two, part of its title "cyberservices" is not used in technical or mainstream in any language, other than by its marketing inventors, see Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Cyberservices. Note to everyone, I am Filipino, and I am not race bashing.

Simply put, it does violate 2 sections of policy. Deliberately promoting what is definitely 'not there, and predicting way too far in the future. A new administration can change alot. I rephrased in order to not sound offensive to any newbies. ;) --Noypi380 10:01, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is a high-technology business district, the same as the others listed in this Wikipedia entry. This deserves its own entry as much as the rest.

Its not a high-technology business district, its 600 miles from Baguio to Zamboanga. Pls try comparing that to Silicon Valley. That distance is almost the 9/10's of our country! Definitely not notable. --Noypi380 09:39, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If we were to pursue logic of Noypi380, we would have to delete all other entries in the category High-technology_business_districts as well. The reason why Noypi380 has targeted this entry is his/her anti-Filipino attitude, as can be seen from his/her other posts.

I'm not anti-Filipino coz I am Filipino, and proud of it. I challenge you to cite a post that is anti-anything. My user name "Noypi" when reversed is "Pinoy", which at home is short for Pilipino (Tagalog), or Filipino in English. Pls read all of my work before you judge me. Pls see our Filipino community portal. The corridor is also not a high technology district, the Philippines has none, and I am a Filipino who is honest about that. :) --Noypi380 09:28, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You may be right about Noypi380. For this person to say "the corridor is not even notable" is a contradiction to the Philippine president's statement that over 100,000 people are employed in the corridor. It seems this person is biased against the Philippines, and I would not be surprised if this person comes from a country that competes with the Philippines for offshore work.

Why target the Philippines? Why is Noypi380 silent about other corridors in other countries?

Pls try to compare the corridor which is 600 miles from Baguio to Zamboanga with Silicon Valley. That is almost the 9/10's of our country! The government is trying to make our whole country a corridor? Truthfully, no. --Noypi380 09:31, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What is going on is the government is taking credit for those over 100,000 tech workers. Those over 100,000 are being employed in tech-related enterprises, spread out all over the country. The government conveniently credited themselves, by calling it all a "corridor", as if the government planned it ahead of time. That is why it is not notable, and it would be more politically correct to remove it. Silicon Valley is definitely a corridor. Though I am Filipino, I am the first person who would admit that there no such place in our country remotely like Silicon Valley, no matter what the government labels it. --Noypi380 09:28, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Lastly, I believe that the votes about this point, 2 votes and comments all in all, are from one and the same person, source, or organization. Wikipedia is not for promotion! Even though its from the government!--Noypi380 10:18, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, I'm not with the government. Heck, I don't even like the government. I'm certainly not Dondi, either. I'm Mike Abundo, from mikeabundo.com. --Mikeabundo 11:56, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I was not refering to Dondi, source does not matter, that article is clearly promotion. Articles in wikipedia must be notable, or are expected to be notable! Its not even notable in the Philippines! --Noypi380 12:03, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(Note: I am the author of the article)

That is the problem, there is no intended district, just 600 miles of country, in a small country. It is not a notable tech/business district because it is not a district at all. The article is like a hypothetical United States Tech corridor from San Francisco to Chicago! All that land is a corridor!? --Noypi380 12:50, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There is a scientific research corridor called the International Northeast Biosciences Corridor that stretches from Quebec to Connecticut, over 1000 miles. Yes, all that land is a corridor! Dondi 18:34, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes sir, but pls compare further. Firstly Mr. Commissioner, is your corridor existing, or is just hype? Does the effort at its current stage, if ever, warrant an article in Wikipedia, or just in local newspapers? Just because the plan is big does not mean it should be in Wikipedia already. Wait and see. The goal is too far off, too unpredictable. Or can you say "600 miles of fiber optic cable" is equal to "the corridor", and then put an article here on the whole corridor? No sir. It is best that the article only exist if/when that dream is almost a reality, unless crystal balls are back in fashion. Secondly, the article cannot deliberately mislead readers promoting what is not there. Perhaps, alot have already been mislead. --Noypi380 09:39, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please check the link to the 2005 State of the Nation Address. Dondi 18:34, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I checked it now (although it's not really a link to the text of the Address itself, but a link to the Executive Summary of the address), and I stand corrected. Perhaps it would be better to talk of this Corridor NOT as a defined land area (as the article says), which perhaps is the source of Noypi's delete vote. I would say Keep if the article is reworded to include the following information from the Executive Summary of the SONA:
"Philippine CyberServices Corridor, an ICT belt stretching 600 miles from Baguio City to Zamboanga which is envisioned to provide a variety of cyberservices at par with global standards."
Noelle De Guzman 02:50, 9 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Although President Arroyo mentioned about a "cyberservices corridor" in the speech cited on the page, it is only but a mere concept. The Philippine Cyberservices Corridor does not even exist yet in reality as of yet. Also, the chosen resource in itself is faulty. If President Arroyo talks about the concept of the Philippine Cyberservices Corridor, that does not mean that the corridor exists, even if she tries to promote forming a corridor by the end of her term. As of now, while cyberservices are booming, there is no concrete proof that the corridor even exists.

--Akira123323 14:30, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

P.S.: Just for the record, I'm a Filipino too. I may be critical of the concept but that does not mean I am anti-Filipino, judging by the comments I read above.

-Actually, as with the International Northeast Biosciences Corridor that stretches from Quebec to Connecticut, only selected locations are allowed to call themselves part of the corridor. Specific criteria must be met. Dondi 18:34, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That is the precisely the point Mr. Commissioner, international readers may be misled that the thing is up, or is going to built soon, when you compare it to such examples. It seems you are still planning you're corridor. For now, it would be best to remove this article, and build a new one when you're corridor is nearly finished. Your successor might even change its name, there are so many unpredictables. Am I right to assume that you do not yet have the criteria for selecting locations for the corridor? We cannot promote what is not yet there, sir. It might not be even notable when it already built. That is why the article should not exist, yet. :)--Noypi380 09:52, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
good suggestion. will implement. some salient facts to point out!
-the backbone of the corridor (fiber optic network) was established in the late '90s via the telecomms deregulation
-the true resource of the corridor are the people, product of decades of enlightened educational policies
-the job generation was the result of a conscious effort of government to attract investors by establishing financial incentives and special economic zones
-promotion of the industry has been spearheaded by trade missions led by senior government officials since the late '90s
-for cities to be recognized as bonafide locations within the corridor, there is a defined process and criteria Dondi 18:34, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it is there... the land is there. There is controversy on its characteristics but the stretch of land does exist. Even if it not what the President of the Philippines claims the fact that it is important for her government indicates the general importance of the topic. --Vizcarra 00:30, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I also thought of using an NPOV tag too, but I still seriously doubt that the article should be here in wikipedia. Pls allow me to clarify the terms first since there is a confusion, I was not able to speak properly when I read those offensive comments, and I was emotionally swayed. --Noypi380 07:02, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
For the moment let us all call the corridor "PCC". There are two PCCs in question here. One is the planned future PCC, which is based on a source, (only the presidential speeches). The other one is the "current" PCC, (subject of the article before you edited it). That "current" PCC is not sourced, is not planned, is not a district, and it does not exist, never mind about the area. That is why I argue against its notability, because there is none. Speaking in an NPOV way, it violates this policy. The one who started that article is also a government official in our country who is responsible for promoting the local industries. I apologize that he is promoting now something that is not there, and is also in doubt. On the future planned PCC which is not the subject of the article, that I concede is notable. However it is just a plan. Over 50% of long term government plans in the Philippines do not push through, even elections, and on that regard, that is why users Noelle, and Akira, and Coffee, all Filipinos, voted delete. We only start important Philippine-related articles only when we are already sure it is almost built, as too avoid this violation. That is how we do things in order to accomodate wikipedia's policies. The future PCC is a long time away, and "PCC" is certainly not the correct name in the future, and that is assuming we are using the PCC as defined in the speeches. The article was deliberately misleading, sourcing the "planned" PCC, and saying that is already here to a "current" PCC, which does not exist, and I was vehemently against. That is basically all of it in NPOV. That is why I urge everyone to delete it already. It can be brought back anyway, in perhaps 5-10 years time, assuming all goes well. But for now, it is a soapbox, stuck with little useful data --Noypi380 07:02, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
On the anon user, and Mr. Commissioner (User Dondi). I am disappointed that both of you did not assume good faith, when I proposed the AfD. You both deliberately attacked me even though you both knew that I am Filipino, even calling me anti-Filipino which is a common stereotypical tactic used by government officials against opponents. It is worse when it comes from people of your age and status. I hope it does not happen again. More importantly why can't you just contribute in the article called Business process outsourcing in the Philippines, an article that is supposed to accomodate, without being a soapbox, the sector you are working in. --Noypi380 07:02, 11 February 2006 (UTC) Out of line myself, pls observe, good faith thanks. --Noypi380 03:18, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Reiterating my decision to delete, a piece of evidence that I found can probably explain why:
"The development of the Philippine CyberServices Corridor which shall provide a variety of cyberservices at par with global standards was pursued. The Corridor, which is connected by a US$10 billion high bandwidth fiber backbone and digital network, shall serve as a “one destination” for investors, stretching 600 miles from Baguio to Zamboanga. Certain areas have been declared as ICT hubs with high-speed networks and connectivity: (Pasig-Ortigas, Makati, UP-Ateneo-Eastwood, Alabang-Paranaque, Subic-Clark, Cebu-Asia Town Park, University Belt, Davao). Additional 9 areas have been identified as potential ICT hubs: Leyte, Camarines Sur, Pangasinan, Iloilo City, Baguio City, Davao, Zamboanga, General Santos City and Cagayan de Oro." (THE 2005 ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF THE ARROYO ADMINISTRATION, 2005)
What I question is that why would an article talk about a concept that is only a concept and does not physically exist. It is concedable that the Arroyo administration is pursuing the corridor, but pursuit of a concept does not mean that such a concept exists in reality. In fact, there is still no hard evidence that the PCC even exists except for the concept. Note that the first line of that quote mentions "The development of the Philippine CyberServices Corridor which shall provide a variety of cyberservices at par with global standards was pursued". Pursuit, as mentioned earlier, is not tantamount to formation. President Arroyo herself did not even give a timeline on when the PCC concept would finally take shape and when it would be completed. Because of that, it's still a non-existant concept and I still stand by my decision to delete. --Akira123323 07:51, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Thanks for your considered responses and explaining the distinction between the current vs proposed PCC -- the Wikipedia article definitely confuses the two (I have not yet checked to verify your claim that the two are indeed distinct). If indeed "over 50% of long-term government plans" are empty "electoral promises" then that should be mentioned in the article. I did not previously see the article Business process outsourcing in the Philippines - that is a very appropriate article. Merge to Business process outsourcing in the Philippines. Again, let me remind you that the existance of a Wikipedia article (or section of an article) on a subject does not make it "better" or give it more credence, it can also be bad. Corporations often advertise on Wikipedia, only to have their article become a description of all its horrible business practices rather than a description of the things it sells. For example, if President Aroyyo has made promises in regard to the PCC / PCC proposal that she does not hold, then this could serve as documentation for future reference that she failed her promises. —Quarl (talk) 2006-02-12 13:40Z
Yes, thank you very much. :) --Noypi380 00:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It seems another option is to remove the categorization of the article from the High Tech Business Districts. With regard to suggestion to merge to Business process outsourcing in the Philippines, this would not be acceptable as Cyberservices is more than just BPO. With regard to crystal-balling, this is not acceptable as the $10B high bandwidth telecomm backbone already exists and can be verified physically, as well as the call centers and other companies mentioned in the article. There is actually going to be a MOA signed between the governors and mayors within the next 60 days to formalize the existence of such corridor on a local/regional level (it is already part of national policy on a country level). Upon such signing, article will be updated. Dondi 07:18, 13 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes Mr Commissioner, but the work you are doing now in office is not equal to the "corridor". Telecom backbone + call centers + contracts is not equal to a "present" corridor (subject of article, non-existent) and is not equal to a "future" corridor (based on vague speeches of president who can be deposed even tommorrow). See how deceiving? I urge you to vote delete, and don't worry if it is removed. I'll help you out create encyclopedic articles related to the Philippine information/communication technology industry. Pls, I mean pls, vote delete, based on the reasons I said. I hope you change your mind. :) --Noypi380 00:38, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. --Akira123323 22:08, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In that case let's delete Superman 3, and all of the Category:2007 films... just kidding. --Vizcarra 22:42, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That's an unfair comparison. Read the text above again, particularly my discussion with Quarl. This is clearly not like Category:2007 films or Category:2007 elections. Those things are almost certainly going to be done in 2007. The films have definite release dates, even down to the hour in so many countries. The elections have poll voting and counting schedules planned beforehand, with contingencies. The future "corridor", assuming the sources, does not even have a deadline, and has so many other uncertainties. There are so many plans but no completions in the Philippines. The "future" corridor is not even the subject of the article, for the subject of the article is a "present" corridor that does not even exist, read Akira's earlier comments. That is why there is no apparent NPOV dispute. No corridor, no dispute. You're confusing the future uncertain, unfinalized, plan with a corridor that is not there. See? That article has already been proven to be blatant act of deception through wikipedia. The planned 600 mile "stretch of land" does not automatically present itself as a corridor now unless the thing is fully or nearly built, if it is built. I urge you to reconsider you're vote to delete. Of course, all of this assumes were not kidding... :) --Noypi380 00:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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