The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Redirect to X Factor (Denmark season 9). There is not a consensus to delete, but there is a clear consensus for some option other than keeping the article as it is. Redirected and protected against recreation absent a new consensus. bd2412 T 18:27, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Reem (singer)[edit]

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Non-notable reality tv contestant. Fails WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:51, 5 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to X Factor (Denmark season 9) as it has been for some time and then protect against recreation as this is persistently being recreated. Also do the same for Reem Hamze. anemoneprojectors 15:51, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Note I've now protected the redirect Reem Hamze as it was recreated, probably as a way to avoid this AFD. anemone projectors 18:06, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 11:42, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - thanks AnemoneProjectors - that's a good point. Whatever the decision of this AfD is, it should also apply to Reem Hamze. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 18:22, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment protection may not be needed now as the persistent sockpuppetry has stopped since it was detected and certain accounts were blocked. But if the article is redirected by consensus and then is still recreated, it could be protected then. anemone projectors 10:27, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note to closer - might want to consider salting the article as well, in light of the continued vandalism and disruptive editing on the article. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 17:45, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 05:02, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Denmark-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 05:02, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I didn't see notable citations. Odds of finding notable citation for a reality show contestant seem very slim. Knox490 (talk) 06:18, 13 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Redirect/delete?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Winged Blades^Godric 07:45, 13 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep meets WP:MUSICBIO #2 with her single "All That I Want". It charted in the Danish charts at #33 exactly a year ago, according to Hung Medien. Fuebaey (talk) 06:08, 15 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947^{^{^(c)}} 22:30, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Charting single. KaisaL (talk) 17:25, 21 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment to closer, having a weak charting single only says they may be notable. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 17:26, 21 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I think having a weak charting single in this case shouldn't mean the article is kept - as she still clearly fails WP:GNG. For the UK version of The X Factor, we create lists of contestants such as List of The X Factor finalists (UK series 9) because they're mostly not notable enough for an independent article. If our sockpuppet had done this, it wouldn't have been so bad. Or if the article actually had some information about this Reem person, rather than just a table and a list with one entry, then I might be changing my mind. If The X Factor is as big in Denmark as it is in the UK, there should be some interest in the contestants and some information, but it may take a Danish speaker to find this. Or maybe we could look to the Danish Wikipedia for inspiration (da:Reem). anemone projectors 10:35, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This Afd was closed, but brought to Deletion Review. The result of that review was to find no fault with the original close per-se, but relist given the discovery of additional sources (which are listed on the DRV page), so I've backed out the previous close. This third relisting period should be used to evaluate those sources.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- RoySmith (talk) 13:26, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per lack of substantial coverage in independent reliable sources. A low placing on one country chart doesn't mean all our policies get tossed out the window, especially as we'd be left with a (very dangerous) unreferenceable BLP. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 17:58, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
1. Barfoed, Jirina (2016-10-28). "Reem i ny rolle foran kameraet". Se og Hør (in Dutch). Archived from the original on 2017-05-02. Retrieved 2017-05-02.
  From Google Translate:
  There is full speed ahead of Reem Hamze after she participated in "X Factor" where she ended up in a super nice second place. Since then she has a record contract with Sony Music, and then she landed the job as a museum for Cecilie Bahnsen, who won the Danish Design Talent prize and half a million kroner yesterday.
2. Olsen, Maria Rode (2016-02-27). "X Factor-Reem elsker at danse". Billed Bladet (in Dutch). Archived from the original on 2017-05-02. Retrieved 2017-05-02.
  From Google Translate:
  Reem had challenged herself in Friday's "X Factor" live show by not only singing the song "Lost in the girl", but also showing her skills on a dance floor at the same time.
  It was in collaboration with judge Mette Lindberg that the 17-year-old soloist had come to impress with choreography during his performance.
  ...
  Throughout the eight years, there has been room for a bit of each, but it is primarily the hip-hop, freestyle and dancehall genre that Reem likes most.
  She has been taught at several dance schools in Zealand, and now she is dancing with a friend at a youth school approximately twice a week.
3. Vestergaard, Andreas Erboe (2016-03-04). "Reem afslører: Jeg var totalt pinligt berørt over at skulle synge". BT (in Dutch). Archived from the original on 2017-05-02. Retrieved 2017-05-02.
  From Google Translate:
  
  Reem is born and raised in Denmark. Half of her family lives in Palestine, and the other half lives in Lebanon. It was on a holiday in Lebanon, where they visited the family that, as a 12-year-old, she was ready to give her a testimony of her huge song talent. In front of his father's family. That is, his nine siblings and their children, which meant a total of 30-35 people. The mother's 13 siblings and their children were not present in the small apartment. It was the parents idea that she should sing in front of the big family. They had noticed the extraordinary talent of the daughter - but only unfolded within the four walls of the home in Valby near Copenhagen. It was a big mouthful for a little girl who was very shy at that time.
  ...
  Reem participates in this year's 'X Factor', and she has by-law judges and Denmark by storm. The teenager has Managed to touch Judge Mette Lindberg to tears with his incredible voice, which leads to Amy Winehouse - the now-deceased English song star, to which Reem everywhere is compared.
  ...
  In the past many hours have been spent in the dance room. For eight years, the sporty girl went to dance and folded Out in hip hop. The combination of singing and dancing is also something she admires with Beyoncé, Rihanna, Jennifer Lopez and Amy Winehouse, who she has been compared to.
4. Hansen, Jan Lambæk (2016-04-02). "Reportage: Mest spændende X Factor-finale til dato". Gaffa (in Dutch). Archived from the original on 2017-05-02. Retrieved 2017-05-02.
  From Google Translate:
  
  This year's X Factor is also exciting because the show has a participant who has shown internationally from the start. I'm thinking of the favorite Reem. In addition to a nice voice and a strong singing talent, she also has the ability to occupy the entire room when she is on stage. You are quickly drawn to her self-confidence and charm. And thanks to her dance skills, she also knows how to move on a scene.
  ...
  After a short videoconference, Reem shows up and opens the living space with Zara Larsson's "Never Forget You". ...
  ...
  My high expectations for Reem are happily fulfilled as she performs the Bieber / Skrillex hit "Where Are You Now?". Judge Mette Lindberg was quite right when she initially said that Reem wanted to show everything she could. She is lost. She is a 17-year-old green poll, but acts like a diva. Diva in the cool way. She has so much authority and is undoubtedly the biggest, and perhaps the first real, X Factor star in Denmark.
  ...
  However, Reem puts its competitors on the wall when she sings Lukas Graham's vocal on "Golden" along with Brandon Beal . Not only because of her singing talent, but also because of her stage performance. Even Christopher , whom she also has a duet with, must bow in the dust. Reem is born to stand on a stage. And she will also be exciting in 30 years.
  ...
  Unfortunately, Reem's potential win song "All That I Want" is a boring case. It is screwed together in a pop-up machine without spark. A number you soon forget. And it seems she does not feel at home in that number. Could she even think about it? Still, I see her as a winner, and the faster she can get rid of the X Factor links, the better for a real music career.
5. "By night med X Factor". da:Morsø Folkeblad (in Dutch). 2016-08-03. Retrieved 2017-05-02.
  From Google Translate:
  For a long time, Reem Hamze was considered a favorite to win X Factor, with the best odds on Danish Games. In the final on April 1, 2016, Reem had to finish second in the song contest. However, she was offered a plate contract immediately after the end. Gaffa's reviewer rated her with "She has so much authority and is undoubtedly the biggest, and perhaps first real, X Factor star in Denmark." Reem's voice has been compared to Amy Winehouses.
6. Ellegaard, Christian (2016-02-27). "Tak far: Derfor er Reem med i X Factor" (in Dutch). DR. Archived from the original on 2017-05-02. Retrieved 2017-05-02.
  From Google Translate:
  Friday after Friday, 17-year-old Reem shines on stage when she sings and dances on in X Factor.
  And the young singer - and the Danish television viewers - have one particular person to thank Reem today for the X Factor scene.
  Namely Reem's father.
  According to Reem, her father's merit was that the 17-year-old star spy discovered that her singing talent stretched beyond the usual.
  On a holiday he asked Reem to sing for the rest of the family, and afterwards her family was speechless about the young girl's singing talent.
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Reem to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 03:43, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, RoySmith (talk · contribs), for your kind words at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2017 May 1. In the spirit of discussing the sources as your close implores, I'll start. Among other sources, Reem has received significant coverage in Billed Bladet, a 150,000 circulation magazine that is one of the oldest magazines in Denmark; and DR, a Danish public-service organization that is Denmark's oldest and largest electronic media enterprise. I think the coverage in longstanding reputable Denmark sources strongly establishes that Reem passes Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline.
Cunard (talk) 03:53, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. User:Cunard's discovered sources clearly meet the WP:MUSICBIO bar and should be incorporated into the article. A Train^talk 12:35, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
weak keep weak because I'm having a hard time evaluating the reliability of the sources. But coverage looks deep enough to meet WP:N assuming the sources are reliable. Hobit (talk) 14:04, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Admin note: I closed this yesterday since it appeared to me that new sources spawned a blizzard, however I was asked by the original closing admin Scottywong to reconsider. In light of the deletion review closing with an explicit instruction to review and discuss the new sources, I am reverting my close so that discussion of those sources may continue. For the purposes of administration, this is not a relist. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 10:56, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note that I also recreated the redirect Reem Hamze yesterday, but did not carry up semiprotection as it does not appear necessary on the redirect at the moment. It should go as this goes. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 11:00, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete not notable. Mjbmr (talk) 16:03, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ (updated to "redirect", pls see below) -- according to sources presented, the singer has just been offered a contract. When Reem releases a notable album, then it would be appropriate to have an article. Otherwise, WP:TOOSOON. Sources presented at this AfD are either passing mentions or not independent of the subject, as in:

According to Reem, her father's merit was that the 17-year-old star spy discovered that her singing talent stretched beyond the usual. On a holiday he asked Reem to sing for the rest of the family, and afterwards her family was speechless about the young girl's singing talent.

K.e.coffman (talk) 05:42, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi folks, the two !votes above aren't really looking at the sources. Rather it's more of a "WP:JNN" argument (well one is 100% that). Hobit (talk) 06:16, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi folks, I've looked at the sources. In fact, I've quoted from the sources: "According to Reem, her father's merit was..." etc. K.e.coffman (talk) 07:12, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You did. And it's a JNN argument from what I can tell. We don't much care why she's notable. Only that the sources are in depth, reliable and independent. That a quote comes from her father doesn't make the source doing the quoting "not independent" in any way. I suspect we have books on former presidents that quote their parents. Doesn't invalidate the source. Hobit (talk) 14:24, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I barely find any sources in English. Mjbmr (talk) 09:06, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Which is also irrelevant to WP:N. Hobit (talk) 14:24, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - It is actually, there is not enough coverage to prove notability. Mjbmr (talk) 17:40, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - There is no requirement that the sources be in English. Hobit (talk) 19:06, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      - I didn't say that, but to me which I gave my opinion, should found enough coverage to be notable for English Wikipedia. Mjbmr (talk) 19:08, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I disagree with the statement ...sources are in depth, reliable and independent. That a quote comes from her father doesn't make the source doing the quoting "not independent" in any way. The quote comes from Reem ("according to Reem...") -- this is the definition of a non-independent source. Interviews in general are not SIGCOV sources for the purpose of establishing notability. K.e.coffman (talk) 21:43, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to X Factor (Denmark season 9) as it has been for some time and then protect against recreation. (Updated iVote). K.e.coffman (talk) 21:48, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to X Factor (Denmark season 9). The sources presented, IMO, do not constitute enough reliable significant coverage for a stand-alone article. Protection is an option if this is going to keep getting re-created. Reyk _YO! 21:10, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to X Factor (Denmark season 9). coverage inadequate to support notability.10:46, 17 May 2017 (UTC)E.M.Gregory (talk)
Redirect to X Factor (Denmark season 9). I strongly support K.e.coffman's proposal to protect against recreation as well. Ifnord (talk) 20:09, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to X Factor (Denmark season 9) per above. Semiprotect the redirect only if it becomes evident that users will not respect this consensus. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 13:18, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.