The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 03:36, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ryan Frazier[edit]

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This subject fails WP:GNG and WP:NPOL. There are sources cited, but many are of the self-published variety, such as a press release from the AHA, and others are insignificant in their depth. Subject fails NPOL as only having served on the Aurora, Colorado city council, a body that doesn't have its own wikipage, and certainly does not count in NPOL. He ran for Congress and lost. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:43, 10 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:43, 10 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Colorado-related deletion discussions. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:43, 10 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - clearly doesn't pass WP:NPOL as per Nom. This rules out all of the best Frazier-focused sources. His company and charities don't seem big enough and there isn't enough coverage of him in his owner/trustee roles to satisfy GNG, afaict. If he was actually serving as a councillor atm then it would make sense to redirect him to the city's governance. As he isn't, that and the elections he was involved with are all equally legitimate. Thus redirect seems inappropriate. Nosebagbear (talk) 14:46, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Aurora CO is not large enough to hand all of its city councillors an automatic inclusion freebie under WP:NPOL, and non-winning candidates for election to Congress are not guaranteed Wikipedia articles just for being candidates — for either role, the notability test is the ability to reliably source some evidence that he's a special case compared to most other people who've done the same things. There's no evidence of that being shown here, however — the sourcing is split between primary sources that don't support notability at all, and purely routine media coverage no different than every city councillor and every non-winning candidate could always show. This is not enough coverage, either in volume or in depth, to make him a special case among otherwise non-notable classes of topic. Bearcat (talk) 16:33, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The subject of this page is very much notable as the first African American male to be elected to Aurora's city council and the 1st African American republican to win a major party nomination in Colorado. Setting aside the timing of the this deletion thread (i.e. recent news that the subject is likely seek the mayor's office in 2019. See https://www.sentinelcolorado.com/0trending/city-desk-former-aurora-city-council-member-ryan-frazier-eyeing-run-for-mayor/), Aurora, Colorado is the 54th largest city in the U.S. and 3rd largest in Colorado. Subject is worthy of keeping and is line with the standards of other liked articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dexter1846 (talk • contribs) 11:02, 14 January 2019 (UTC) — Dexter1846 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

If he were the first African-American (of any gender) to be elected to an city council, then that would be sufficient. But your latter point of "54th largest" - while that is big, it's miles off making it so exceptional as to stand out in that sense. It also doesn't demonstrate notability just to be the first "from the republicans", and for just a state I wouldn't buy that argument in any case.

I'm not the nom, so can't know their "why now", but if everything after mooting a run was cut off, and then the run into elections etc, we'd never be able to send any American politician to AfD. Nosebagbear (talk) 17:41, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nosebagbear, the "why now" is that I had come across this page somehow in 2016 and tagged it for notability. I then forgot about the page until it popped up on my watchlist again. I looked into it and decided AfD was appropriate. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:45, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note that Dexter1846 has made no edits outside of this topic. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:47, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Being the first member of an underrepresented minority group to hold an otherwise non-notable office is not a notability freebie. Aurora CO is not a city whose city councillors would be expected to always have Wikipedia articles because city councillor, so being a person of colour is not an instant free pass to being more special than his colleagues. Every city that has a city council at all is always going to have its own first councillor of colour (and first woman, and first LGBT councillor, etc.) at some point in its past or future — so the notability test for that is not just being able to claim it, but being able to show that the distinction earned him much wider, deeper and more nationalized coverage than most of his other colleagues could routinely expect to receive. If this had somehow made him the first African American officeholder in the history of the entire United States, then he'd have a credible notability claim — but he's far from that, and simply being the first African American in his own city to accomplish something that hundreds or thousands of African Americans in other cities had already accomplished before him is not a free ticket into Wikipedia that would exempt him from having to have a lot more media coverage for it than this.
And incidentally, no, declaring his candidacy for mayor is not a notability claim either — even at the mayoral level, mayors still aren't all deemed automatically notable just for being mayors, and even when we do accept mayoralty as a notability claim a person still has to win the mayoral election, not just run in it, to claim notability on that basis. So your opinions about the "timing" of this discussion are irrelevant, and you can kindly go file them in your nearest garbage can. Bearcat (talk) 23:04, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lack of decorum (from one in particular) doesn't become any contributors here. Some of the comments seemingly indicate a particular unfavorable bias towards subject. The subject has and continues to be worth keeping. This page has existed since at least 2010 and is supported now as it was then. The 1st African American male city councilman of this city, the 1st African American to win a major party congressional nomination in Colorado may not be enough to those on this thread, but, it is of significance to a great many, nationally. Subject continues to make headlines and has appeared on numerous national and local television programs to weigh in on matters of both national and local interest. Not to be remiss in mentioning that subject's professional roles with the largest air medical company in the world and one of the most powerful healthcare organizations in the U.S. indicates a history of far reaching impact, again nationally. As far as the note above re: lack of contributions, didn't think that was a requirement to weigh in on a debate discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dexter1846 (talk • contribs) 05:16, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I believe that the reason why Muboshgu brought up the lack of edits is to point out that there may be a WP:COI between you and the subject of the article, which is fairly common in AfD discussions. Best, GPL93 (talk) 14:59, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dexter1846, the page existing since 2010 is an argument to avoid in deletion discussions. It just means nobody nominated it earlier. Other things you are mentioning (such as "1st African American male city councilman of this city, the 1st African American to win a major party congressional nomination in Colorado") are not notability criteria. Sourcing is. And if the "lack of decorum" comment was directed at me, I ask you to point out what exactly lacked decorum in my responses. Pointing out you are a single-purpose account is not inappropriate. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:12, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking for myself, I don't live in Colorado (or even in the United States), so I have no reason whatsoever to be biased for or against a city councillor in Colorado — but what Wikipedia does have is rules about how we decide who qualifies for an article on here and who doesn't. If there were no rules at all, then this wouldn't be an encyclopedia anymore, because every single person who exists would be able to start an article about themselves and their little sisters whether they'd accomplished anything genuinely noteworthy or not — but that's not what we're here for, so we have rules about the kinds of things a person has to accomplish, and the quality and depth of reliable sourcing they have to have received for those accomplishments, before they qualify to be included here. You're simply not demonstrating that Ryan Frazier meets our rules, because our rules simply don't include "holds a city council seat", or "won a nomination in a congressional primary but didn't win the general election", or "was the first [insert underrepresented minority group here] in his own city or state, but not in the entire country, to do either of those things".
Just to be clear: the lowest level of political office that guarantees a Wikipedia article is the state legislature. We accept mayors as notable if they're well-sourced, but do not just accept every mayor — and we accept city councillors as notable only if they serve in internationally prominent global cities and not if they serve in cities outside that special tier. So since most city councillors in Aurora CO aren't notable enough for Wikipedia articles, to earn special treatment Ryan Frazier would have to show that he was significantly more notable than most other city councillors — and to pass that test, the article would have to be referenced exponentially better than this is. Bearcat (talk) 17:24, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Doesn't pass WP:NPOL or WP:GNG, while being the first person of color is certainly an important milestone for the city of Aurora it is not particularly notable outside of local coverage. GPL93 (talk) 15:24, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete upon review of his sources, he fails WP:GNG, and doesn't have any automatic notability per WP:NPOL. SportingFlyer T·C 05:52, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.