The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. No objections to any redirects that users may wish to put in Spartaz ^Humbug! 05:14, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ryan Shamrock (fighter)[edit]

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He's a non-notable MMA fighter with only 3 fights (1 win), none for a major promotion. His notability claim is being the son of a UFC Hall of Famer, but notability is not inherited.

I am also nominating the following related pages because none of these fighters meet the notability criteria at WP:MMANOT.

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Papaursa (talk) 19:55, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:53, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all None of these MMA fighters meet the notability criteria at WP:MMANOT. Astudent0 (talk) 17:56, 31 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep BAMMA Featherweight Champion Alan Omer; Redirect UFC fighter Philip De Fries to UFC 138, and TUF competitor Cameron Dollar to The Ultimate Fighter: United States vs. United Kingdom; Delete all others on the grounds that they are not notable. Osubuckeyeguy (talk) 02:20, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

None of the fighters you want kept have any fights for a top tier promotion, much less the 3 stated in WP:MMANOT. Omer won the BAMMA title (second tier promotion) at BAMMA 2 and promptly lost it at BAMMA 3. Again, no fights for a top tier promotion. I am willing to keep the article on De Fries since he may soon meet the notability criteria. Papaursa (talk) 03:26, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point, but redirects are cheap. I see no reason why they wouldn't serve the same purpose as deletion in the two instances I mentioned. Omer isn't a major player, but since he has won a championship for arguably the largest organization in the UK, I am comfortable having a stub for him. I respect MMANOT, but see it as a guideline, not a rule. My primary interest in deleting articles is to knock out the least notable people from the bottom of the pile up. I'm willing to give people on the cusp a pass so long as there are still so many less notable people with pages. For instance, a person hired by Bellator with no top-tier fights wouldn't be notable according to the guideline, but could be within a matter of months if he is scheduled to compete in their tournament (and thus fight several times in quick succession). In an instance like that, I would like vote to redirect rather than delete. So, I generally consider each fighter on a case by case basis, which is what I've done here. Osubuckeyeguy (talk) 13:50, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You're right about the redirects and that there are hundreds of fighters that don't meet the criteria. I don't think Omer has shown he's notable or is on the verge, so we'll just have to disagree on him. I'd like to remove, at least temporarily, De Fries from the discussion so his article doesn't have to be recreated if he succeeds in the UFC. Can I just delete him from the above list and remove the link from his article? Papaursa (talk) 14:05, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Since you're the nominator, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to drop De Fries from the list. Particularly since he wasn't the one named in the primary nomination. Osubuckeyeguy (talk) 02:52, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep all for which verifiable sources exist from Sherdog or MMAFighting, for example. Ryan Shamrock, at worst should redirect to his father's page in a section on personal life/family. There is certainly no pressing BLP need to delete the article altogether, however. --173.241.225.163 (talk) 17:14, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We can verify they're all MMA fighters, but that's not the issue. The question is whether they're notable (see WP:MMANOT). Papaursa (talk) 19:15, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Bobby Emmons and give thru January 2012, I just don't want to have to remake his wiki page again after he fights for a top tier promotion to be considered "notable". 4 November 2011 at 11:53.

He has 3 fights (not all of them wins) for a local promotion in Indiana. Believing he'll be fighting for a top tier organization like UFC by January is both wishful thinking and WP:CRYSTALBALL. Mdtemp (talk) 14:59, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep De Fries, Redirect Dollar, Delete the rest None of these fighters currently meet the notability criteria at WP:MMANOT, but Dollar is mentioned in TUF article and De Fries is scheduled to start fighting in the UFC. Mdtemp (talk) 14:59, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Philip De Fries is currently signed to the UFC most recently fighting at UFC 138. There is no reason to delete his page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saintsfc08 (talk • contribs) 18:25, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Couple points:
- Keep De Fries. Per fight at 138. Per UFC contracts typically being at least two fights. It's easier to Keep now, and delete when he exits after two fights than to delete now, and recreate from ground up after he's in for 3 fights. (What's the likelihood someone's actually going to go for the undelete if we go that route?)
- Redirect Shamrock. Easy enough to put his info in father's article and say "Ryan is a pro fighter with an X-X record as of Date.(Ref-Sherdog)" or whatever.

That information is already there. Papaursa (talk) 03:50, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- Delete all others per WP:MMANOT unless they can meet fighter criteria (1):
  - 1. Subject of multiple independent articles/documentaries--articles should be from national or international media, not just local coverage or press releases from organizations
--Policy Reformer(c) 19:44, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Philip De Fries, he just won his UFC debut at UFC 138 and the UFC is the highest level of the sport. Entity of the Void (talk) 03:45, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all (except De Fries) as failing WP:MMANOT and WP:GNG. Stuartyeates (talk) 06:00, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Alen Omer He was the BAMMA Featherweight Champion, which is a significant title. - Minowafan (talk) 15:31, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

He won a vacant/new title of a second tier promotion at BAMMA 2 and lost it at BAMMA 3. That's not sufficient to meet [WP:MMANOT] and I see nothing else to support notability. Papaursa (talk) 17:05, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.