The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Stifle (talk) 15:46, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Samthong College[edit]

Samthong College (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Does not meet WP:GNG. Across the many citations in the article, there's ample evidence to establish the notability of the village of Sam Thong, but the only discussion of the school are in primary sources that don't contribute to establishing notability.

There's a fair amount of well-sourced information in this article about the village, and also content that could probably be incorporated into Education in Laos. As such, rather than deletion, I think that this article should be moved to Sam Thong and content also merged to Education in Laos. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 23:04, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Schools and Laos. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 23:04, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  The village name is Sam Thong, the High Middle School name is naming and associated "partly" Sam Thong. I have clarified in my response to your question that this article is about the Middle High School founded in the "village" of Sam Thong.2601:448:8400:7E80:0:0:0:170D (talk) 23:13, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  The discussion here is whether the school should have an article on Wikipedia. My position, based on the sources I've seen, is no. This would normally be a straightorward deletion discussion, but the presence of content that could be used at other articles I am proposing an atypical outcome to allow for further work with this material. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 23:24, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Does that mean that this school does not deserve to have its article in Wikipedia like other schools in Western countries? What are your "sources" of information that are missing in this article? Do you know that the school was founded at the time of the Vietnam war, there were no newspapers and television or media like today. It is very difficult to find a piece of newspaper or article paper to support it. Do you also know that there were few people who knew how to read and write during that time? Americans focused on war and we were content to endure the suffering of war. At that time, there were few people who knew the village of Sam Thong as well as the Lycee Samthong or Sam Thong. If you want me to quote newspapers, books, magazines or articles on this school, ask yourself the questions of the Americans who were in Sam Thong during the Vietnam War why they did not want to write an article on this school, since it was Pob Buell who started this humanitarian aid program in Xiengkhouaang, Laos. He was one of the people who founded this school. I don't know what other "sources" of information you deem worth validating as sources to support my article. So you find that all the phrases and words that are written in the USAID program were lies? My information that I can provide is only based on the documents of the American soldiers and the American USAID, there are no others. The rest of the documents are articles that people wrote about their lives and their past in the books during the war when they were in the army with the Americans. Alrs, I try to find a piece of article here and there to support my article and the forgotten school. There are no other solutions or means like in Europe or in the USA. It will be easy if it was in the USA or in Europe, I wouldn't be there.NruasPaoYPP (talk) 13:07, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Wikipedia's notability guidelines are based on the availability of secondary sources. It is tragic that due to war and other challenges, such information may not be available for certain topics that were nevertheless important, but it leaves us unable to write an article without relying on original research using primary sources, which is not the kind of material that Wikipedia publishes.

  That having been said, as I mentioned in the nomination statement, much of the information in this article can be preserved in other articles. The school could be briefly mentioned in an article about Sam Thong, as is standard for schools that don't meet notability guidelines for a standalone article (WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES) _signed, Rosguill ^talk 17:28, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I would like to thank you and take the Wikipedia page below for discussing a bit. Would you like to take a glance on it? There are some more articles like this one, but I think this is just an example and would be enough.

  "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_Christian_Schools

  What did you find interesting about this article? Do you want to tell me what is notable in this Wikipedia article? What is the difference between my article and this one? Does it mean that this article is about a school in California? Does that mean that we can put anything in Wikipedia when it comes to the USA? Currently, Wikipedia pages for education in Laos do not yet exist. If there is, there are very few. NruasPaoYPP (talk) 19:17, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Looks like that article was written in 2017, during a period where our new page patrol was not keeping up with the output of new articles. As written, it definitely falls short of notability guidelines. I'm able to find some local newspaper articles that may have suitable coverage of that school on ProQuest: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] but I don't have access to the articles beyond the headlines. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 20:24, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Rosguill, about " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_Christian_Schools", tell me what are the references that you believe they cover this article? What do you mean about "short of notability" guideline? What is the reference? Why you want to spend time to find some local newspaper articles to cover this article for people? Do you want to favor them? Instead wasting the time to find the local newspaper guidelines that may have suitable coverage of this school, why don't you want to delete it such as you want to do for my article? Thanks. 2601:448:8400:7E80:0:0:0:370F (talk) 04:26, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't see the Wikipedia article below has enough source of information to standalone article. Don't you question about deletion or it has enough source?

  "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_Christian_Schools

  NruasPaoYPP (talk) 20:30, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I think the additional sources I found are 95% likely to be enough to meet WP:GNG and that was just from going halfway down the first page of ProQuest results. So the article needs a lot of work, but I think that it is possible to do such work without needing to engage in original research with primary sources.

  Also, it's worth remembering other stuff exists. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 21:10, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Roseguill, I understand your recommendation for this article, I need proof with newspaper articles (especially in English), magazines, books, or pieces of television or media talking about this school "Samthong college". But I want to say that this college (Samthong college) was not a "Haward University" in Laos, it was a bush school founded by humanitarian aid funds during the Vietnam War. The purpose of this aid was to allow children of refugees from the Vietnam War to have access to education like other children in the world. At that time, few people had the High School Diploma. How do you expect there to be newspaper articles or books written about this school. Do you want to ask the question to Pop Buell and the American soldiers who were with Siver Stalone in the movie "Rambo 1+2+3)? why there was none among Pob Buel and the other Americans wanted to talk a page where to write an article about this high school? Wherever you are at that time or now, I want to tell you that there are no newspapers and books written about this school and maybe other schools that are were in Laos. Most people didn't have a High School Diploma at that time. Even if there were, they should all be dead by now. Besides, there were very few people who could write a book or a newspaper page at that time. This was due to the level of national education in Laos. There was a prestigious high school at that time in Laos called "Lycee Auguste Parvie de Vientiane". It was a High school which was created by the French of the time.Auguste Parvie was the first French officer to enter Laos in 1983. There had only one university at the time, it was Dongdok university. Today it is called Dongdok National University. For all these reasons, how can I find press articles, books, magazines, and well-known authors who have written about Samthong college. Will you read the scraps of USAID paper that I could find and put them back together in small pieces to support that it was not a lie as you hope and believe. Thanks. NruasPaoYPP (talk) 13:51, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm not going to respond to most of this since I think we're going in circles, but I do want to point out that non-English sources are perfectly fine, so if you're able to provide secondary coverage in Lao or French that would be very much welcome. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 16:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Here has become a game of hide and seek. For me, this is the first time I hear you accept articles published in other languages ​​to support a page published in English Wikipedia pages. This should be news to me and also new guidelines and procedures from Wikipedia. In my other articles, it was not what others told me. They told me that only pages written in English and published in English, including Wikipedia pages, are only accepted when not written or published in another language. From then on, they refused what I submitted before to support my Wikipedia articles. So why do you say now that you accept documents written in the Lao language and in French? Are these new orientation procedures? For the requirements you asked for, I really don't know what to say, as you weren't in Sam Thong and Laos during that time. You might think that the country of Laos and the society we lived in back then was like California and New York in the United States. No, it wasn't like that. There were almost no newspapers in Laos. If I remember correctly, there was a local newspaper in the capital of Vientiane, not in other regions. How to get a journalist to write an article about a school like Samthong college in a rural area? However, transport did not allow it. Did you read the paragraphs I quoted in my article as follows? "The school was founded in 1966, then in January 1970, the battle "Campaign 139 forced Samthong middle school to move to Sokpaluang, Vientiane". The life of this school only lasted 3 years in Sam Thong, he There's no more than that. Besides, no one back then was interested in writing articles like people do today.

  The only thing I can provide as evidence to cover and back up this article is pieces of paper that I have collected from people who have spent part of their lives teaching or students who have studied at this school during existing school life. You can find the names of the people I mentioned as follows: Tou-Fu Vang, Wangyee Vang, then Phong Yang. The first person was the principal of Samthong middle school in 1969 - 1970. While Wangyee Vang was a math teacher. As for Phong Yang, he was a student and left school after 4th grade to join General Vang Pao's T-28 pilot squadron after 1971. For the Notable Alumni person, there was Lormong Lo. You can read his biography if you wish. It should be published in Wikipedia pages under Lormong Lo. Thanks. NruasPaoYPP (talk) 18:35, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Rosguill, I don't see anything as references for the article "National University of Laos - Wikipedia".

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Laos

  I think this cannot standalone in Wikipedia, because it does not make sense. It needs to be deleted. I don't know what do you think about this? As I have suggested before, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_Christian_Schools

  The Wikipedia page above would need to review the same. Otherwise, there is a discrimination of minority and race. Thanks. NruasPaoYPP (talk) 21:24, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Rosguill, Although Samthong High School did not have brilliant teachers and students who made careers like Tiger Wood, Michael Jordan, and others such as Russell Wilson, Rob Gronkowski, Patrick Mahomes, J. J. Watt, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger and more in the columns of newspapers and books, but don't forget that there was one of the Principals of Samthong High School and one of the teachers who joined General Vang Pao's army to protect the American soldiers. All this deserves to be said and quoted here, especially in my article "Samthong college". Do you have to have courage like these people to protect someone from elsewhere for good or for worse? it was courage that they did and defended the american soldiers. Not only Tou-Fu Vang, who was the Head Director, there was Wangyee Vang who was a teacher, then there was also Phon Yang. They put their lives on the line to protect others without realizing what is about to happen, so their careers and lives don't deserve to say "notability" value here in this article? However, there is Lormong Lo who has started his studies at Samthong College. It does not deserve to quote here? And you, during this time, where were you? With Silver Stalone to shoot the movie "Rambo"? 2601:448:8400:7E80:0:0:0:170D (talk) 15:27, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. I'm failing to see why this should be included at not other schools. I do not think this is more notable than the majority of middle/high schools. Wozal (talk) 05:39, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Wozal, thanks for your suggestion. Where are you coming from? Included Samthong college in what? This school was in Laos, not in the United States or France or Western countries. In which school do you want to include this school with? It has nothing to do with The ward or Princeton University in the United States or Louis Legrand high School in Paris, France. So how do you want to include it with others? Give me a name of a high school in Laos where I can include it? Do you know one? What's its name? I would like to know if you can give me the name and the article of those schools that you know in Laos and they have their article published in Wikipedia the Free Encyclopedia? I just want to know the "name" of the middle high school or "high school" that has a page published in Wikipedia, that it is. NruasPaoYPP (talk) 16:08, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - I'm with Rosguill here. I struggled to get through the sources and see what makes this "middle high school"/college(?) notable. Sam Thong appears to have been the location of a USAID refugee center in Laos until 1970, but there's really nothing to show notability of this namesake college. Perhaps as suggested above a compromise could be to add some brief info to Education in Laos. @NruasPaoYPP: if you can find any sources in Laotian, please include them. Otherwise we don't have very much to work with here. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 23:49, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• I support Rosguill's suggestion to repurpose to Sam Thong, as long as I'm not the one doing it. This is not a straightforward article move, but rather, it requires substantial work. Almost every town mentioned in this article has no coverage on Wikipedia. That is a terrible state of affairs and highlights our institutional bias to Western countries. We shouldn't be deleting what little information we have. SpinningSpark 10:53, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.