The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Sandstein 10:54, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Simeon von Habsburg[edit]

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I know this will be a controversial nomination, but this article is sourced entirely to three "noble genealogy" directories and a four-sentence blurb about him by the business he works for. It's not clear where he appears in the 2018 Almanach de Gotha (I haven't been able to find a single academic library network carrying the "modern" post-war AdG, or any of the other royalty books cited), but given the structure of the real AdGs of yore it is very likely he exists solely as a name in a pedigree. There is no in-depth independent coverage to suggest notability of this banker*; his only claim is being a Habsburg, which is why almost all of his page is about his and his wife's ancestors and the full names and birthdates of his children (two of them minors).

On the third page of Google I did find a notice in a Swiss newspaper that mentions he was to attend a concert in 2018 and gives a summary of his business. JoelleJay (talk) 05:30, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. JoelleJay (talk) 05:30, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Austria-related deletion discussions. JoelleJay (talk) 05:30, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Belgium-related deletion discussions. JoelleJay (talk) 05:30, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, the claim "He is a member of the House of Habsburg-Lorraine and as such an Archduke of Austria, Prince of Hungary and Bohemia with the style His Imperial and Royal Highness" is a historical courtesy propagated by aristocratic societies and does not reflect official recognition by governments. In fact, use of titles and styles has been illegal in many countries since the end of WWI. Simeon would face legal consequences if he called himself an archduke in Austria. JoelleJay (talk) 18:21, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete more deposed monarchy cruft.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:13, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I don't like the word "cruft" and it's not an actual argument. In any case, he hasn't done enough, whether scandals and/or being a patron of charities, nor is his work automatically notable. Bearian (talk) 19:31, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. He does get coverage from reliable sources for attending events, more than you would expect for someone this far from being the head of a deposed house. For example, entire stories, albeit short were written about Simeon's visits in the St. Galler Tagblatt [1], Badische Zeitung [2], and the Südkurier [3]. There's also short mentions of Simeon attending social events in Tatler [4] and Aargauer Zeitung [5], the latter of which describes him as a "church celebrity" and officially representing the Habsburgs for that event. At the very least, this is enough coverage so that he should be merged to his father's page at Archduke Rudolf of Austria (1919–2010), where the content on Simeon is less well-sourced than what's in his article.---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 07:32, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to allow for consideration of sources and opinion provided later in the discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:39, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The coverage provided in those sources is not remotely in-depth enough to count toward GNG. The Sudkurier article (which is identical to the BZ article) describes the Habsburg family's visit and gives a brief overview of the dynasty's relationship with Laufenburg; it has literally zero information on Simeon beyond his wife and two of his children's names. The AZ and Tatler articles have even less material, merely listing his name as one of the attendees to the respective events. Passing mentions are not sufficient for notability. There is in fact so little biographical content that I don't think there's anything that could be merged (although I did add the refs for his marriage). What's more, the Rudolf article is itself severely lacking in sourcing; I've gone through and removed great-great-grandchildren's names per BLPNAME and tossed out a wedding registry someone thought was appropriate as a BLP source. If someone wants to restore those with the specific pages in the 2018 Almanach that they appear in (not just citing all 45 pages in the "Austria" section) they can do so. JoelleJay (talk) 21:27, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Patar. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 16:27, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I do not think he meets WP:GNG and his roll is not significant. Expertwikiguy (talk) 09:39, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:DELREASON#8: Articles whose subjects fail to meet the relevant notability guideline (WP:N, WP:GNG, WP:BIO, WP:MUSIC, WP:CORP, and so forth). A basic WP:BEFORE search reveals no WP:SIGNIFICANT, in-depth coverage indicative of notability per WP:BASIC. What these sources (including the ones mentioned by Patar knight) do provide is basic biographical information, mentions of previous places of employment, some genealogical information, and what I might charitably characterize as run-of-the-mill celebrity gossip. There is no substantial depth of coverage of the person as mandated by WP:BASIC here. Based on these sources, we can't even say what he would be notable for (besides being descended from notable people, which is the reason all this trivial coverage exist and which doesn't count when we determine notability for Wikipedia subjects—see WP:INVALIDBIO), which should be an immediate clue that he is not in fact notable. Wikipedia is WP:NOTGENEALOGY, but the genealogy is basically all there is to say here. I really don't see anything to merge here, considering the article Archduke Rudolf of Austria (1919–2010) already says Archduke Simeon Carl Eugen Joseph Leopold of Austria (29 June 1958) married Princess María of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (b. 1967) on 13 July 1996. They have five children. which just about covers it. In short, JoelleJay has it right. TompaDompa (talk) 01:21, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep per the sources found by User:Patar knight showing that he is notable. WP:GNG is met. VocalIndia (talk) 13:52, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep per Patar knight's finds in German-language media. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 16:07, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

VocalIndia, Willthacheerleader18 -- did you actually look at the German-language sources? Since there's so little, I'll paste all of what is said about Simeon in them here.

Descriptions of Simeon
The source I provided (Tagblatt) is by far the most in-depth about his background, but comprises a single paragraph with bare-bones info: The K&K Philharmonic have rented the Tonhalle in St.Gallen for the “Best of Mozart” concert. The guests will also include aristocrats: His Royal Highness Simeon of Habsburg-Lothringen, Archduke of Austria, will travel to St. Gallen on April 25, accompanied by his wife and two of his children. The Archduke is a grandson of the last ruling imperial couple Karl and Zita. The almost 60-year-old married his wife, Princess Maria of Bourbon-Sicily, in 1996. The couple have five children. Simeon von Habsburg holds a degree in business administration from the University of Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium. He began his professional career in 1983 with the private bank Brown Brothers Harriman & Cie. in New York. Two years later, he moved to the Paris branch of BBH & Cie. As Deputy Manager for institutional investments. Since 1991 he has been a partner, managing director and member of the board of directors of Principal Vermögensverwaltung AG in Vaduz. A third of this blurb isn't even WP:INDEPENDENT as it is directly copied almost word-for-word from his IFM profile: S.K.K.H. Simeon von Habsburg (1958) began his professional career in 1983 with Brown Brothers Harriman & Cie, private bankers, in New York. Two years later, he joined the Paris branch of BBH & Cie. as Deputy Manager for institutional investing. He has been a partner, managing director, and board member of Principal Vermögensverwaltung AG, Vaduz, since 1991.. The Südkurier (and BZ mirror) discusses his visit to Laufenburg, but doesn't talk about him whatsoever except in the intro: Almost unnoticed by the public, Simeon von Habsburg, Archduke of Austria, visited Laufenburg with his wife and two of his children on Saturday. Simeon von Habsburg was accompanied by his wife Maria of Bourbon-Sicily, Archduchess of Austria, his daughter Archduchess Carlota of Habsburg-Lothringen and his son Archduke Philip of Habsburg-Lothringen. The family arrived in Laufenburg around noon on Saturday. The only time he is described actively doing anything is here: The Archduke's family and the government council gladly accepted the invitation to the inauguration. The rest of the article goes over which locals were in attendance and the gifts they gave the family, and the historical relationship the Swiss town has with the Habsburg dynasty. Tatler mentions he attended Maria Galitzine's wedding: Her own wedding in 2016 had an esteemed guest list, including Princess Maria Laura of Belgium, Princess Theresa of Liechtenstein, Archduke and Archduchess Simeon and María of Austria, and Count and Countess Riprand and Maria-Beatrice of Arco-Zinneberg. AZ mentions him as one of the attendants of a church celebration: Archduke Simeon of Habsburg-Lothringen is also traveling from Vaduz. He represents the House of Habsburg, whose ancestors Idda and Radbot founded the Muri monastery in 1027. One interaction with Simeon is also brought up: [Röbi Lang] says he has exchanged a few words with Archduke Simeon several times. "He's a simple, sociable person.".

Descriptions of Simeon

The source I provided (Tagblatt) is by far the most in-depth about his background, but comprises a single paragraph with bare-bones info: The K&K Philharmonic have rented the Tonhalle in St.Gallen for the “Best of Mozart” concert. The guests will also include aristocrats: His Royal Highness Simeon of Habsburg-Lothringen, Archduke of Austria, will travel to St. Gallen on April 25, accompanied by his wife and two of his children. The Archduke is a grandson of the last ruling imperial couple Karl and Zita. The almost 60-year-old married his wife, Princess Maria of Bourbon-Sicily, in 1996. The couple have five children. Simeon von Habsburg holds a degree in business administration from the University of Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium. He began his professional career in 1983 with the private bank Brown Brothers Harriman & Cie. in New York. Two years later, he moved to the Paris branch of BBH & Cie. As Deputy Manager for institutional investments. Since 1991 he has been a partner, managing director and member of the board of directors of Principal Vermögensverwaltung AG in Vaduz. A third of this blurb isn't even WP:INDEPENDENT as it is directly copied almost word-for-word from his IFM profile: S.K.K.H. Simeon von Habsburg (1958) began his professional career in 1983 with Brown Brothers Harriman & Cie, private bankers, in New York. Two years later, he joined the Paris branch of BBH & Cie. as Deputy Manager for institutional investing. He has been a partner, managing director, and board member of Principal Vermögensverwaltung AG, Vaduz, since 1991..
The Südkurier (and BZ mirror) discusses his visit to Laufenburg, but doesn't talk about him whatsoever except in the intro: Almost unnoticed by the public, Simeon von Habsburg, Archduke of Austria, visited Laufenburg with his wife and two of his children on Saturday. Simeon von Habsburg was accompanied by his wife Maria of Bourbon-Sicily, Archduchess of Austria, his daughter Archduchess Carlota of Habsburg-Lothringen and his son Archduke Philip of Habsburg-Lothringen. The family arrived in Laufenburg around noon on Saturday. The only time he is described actively doing anything is here: The Archduke's family and the government council gladly accepted the invitation to the inauguration. The rest of the article goes over which locals were in attendance and the gifts they gave the family, and the historical relationship the Swiss town has with the Habsburg dynasty.
Tatler mentions he attended Maria Galitzine's wedding: Her own wedding in 2016 had an esteemed guest list, including Princess Maria Laura of Belgium, Princess Theresa of Liechtenstein, Archduke and Archduchess Simeon and María of Austria, and Count and Countess Riprand and Maria-Beatrice of Arco-Zinneberg.
AZ mentions him as one of the attendants of a church celebration: Archduke Simeon of Habsburg-Lothringen is also traveling from Vaduz. He represents the House of Habsburg, whose ancestors Idda and Radbot founded the Muri monastery in 1027. One interaction with Simeon is also brought up: [Röbi Lang] says he has exchanged a few words with Archduke Simeon several times. "He's a simple, sociable person.".

These sources are very clearly insufficient to establish notability. JoelleJay (talk) 18:53, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:18, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.