The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus. As several said in this discussion an edit war doesn't justify an article of being deleted. However, to the keep voters please provide some references to help satisfy WP:V and WP:N because as of now there is no sources provided which gives me the impression that it is borderline notable. I'm giving this article a chance to be improved.--JForget 23:21, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Steve Hoffman[edit]

should be deleted. For too long an edit war has taken place over the entry and/or removal of a supposedly controversial section. Having read the opinions of wikipedia editors I have lost faith in their ability to judge sources and feel that the only solution is to remove this person from the wiki. After all, he is really a very minor character in the world of music, neither composing nor performing. Kalowski 09:47, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kalowski, I agree on your comments. The particular editor protecting Steve Hoffman's page, iMHO, leaves much to be desired. He has been presented tangible evidence of his mistakes in protecting the page, proof about every allegation made, and he avoids discussion entirely. He, in fact, has made me lose confidence in Wikipedia and its modus operandi. I vote for deletion. EricGoberman 14:58, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note both Kalowski and EricGoberman are new editors. --Ronz 16:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's protected, so an admin needs to add the template. Hut 8.5 13:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've added the template. -Jéské (Blah v^_^v) 19:44, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There are still five proposed references on the article talk page that appear to show notability of the subject that no one has contended. --Ronz 16:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


"Note both Kalowski and EricGoberman are new editors. --Ronz 16:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)" This is true... however this is also irrelevant. Kalowski 18:31, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to WP:AFD, Unregistered or new users are welcome to contribute to the discussion, but their recommendations may be discounted, especially if they seem to be made in bad faith (for example, if they misrepresent their reasons). Conversely, the opinions of logged in users whose accounts predate the article's AfD nomination are given more weight. This is a standard note to put in a discussion. --Dhartung | Talk 19:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"Funny how..." As has already been pointed out multiple times, this is a forum for discussions of article deletion, not content disputes. --Ronz 20:16, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You're saying the Houston Press article shows notability, so your vote should be Keep, right? --Ronz 16:02, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
His notability is based on both his remastering work and the disappearance of master tapes under his responsability. As long as both sides of his career are shown, my vote would be Keep. Unfortunately, SH representatives (with a conflict of interest, as demonstrated in the talk page for Steve Hoffman) are repeatedly vandalizing the entry, deleting anything they deem to be not in the best interest of their boss. Due to this fact, I vote "delete" - there's no way to mantain a non-biased article on him. EricGoberman 16:12, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The talk page lists multiple sources that appear to indicate notability. (See Talk:Steve_Hoffman#Possible_references) --Ronz 21:54, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
[1] - one sentence with no claim of notability
[2] - requires registration, so I can't read it.
[3] - requires registration to read, I'm not sure this is a reliable site, anyway.
[4] - requires payment to read article. Corvus cornix 22:00, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for looking at the references. Note that on the second page of the first article, Hoffman is quoted multiple times as an expert. --Ronz 22:35, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure what you mean, Ronz, that Hoffman is quoted multiple times as an expert. I notice:

Kalowski 11:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So you're arguing that we have a source that shows notability. Your nomination of the article for deletion then should be withdrawn by your own admission that the subject is notable. --Ronz 15:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Reply to Ronz Well, Ronz, I am admitting that I wrote the following:

I submit that the only thing that makes Hoffman different and thus more interesting than any other veteran recording engineer is the controversy surrounding his dismissal. Without that section there is no notability.

so if the controversy section is reinstated the subject will be notable and I will withdraw my nomination for deletion. Does that make sense? Kalowski 17:13, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, being identified as an expert by enough reliable sources does indeed make the subject notable. See WP:BIO --Ronz 15:32, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd counter-argue that Steve Hoffman or his representatives have been politely asked to discuss the issue on SH's Talk page. So far, they haven't engaged in conversation with the editors who believe the "Controversy" section should be kept. They haven't supported SH's notability by posting source material, either - so far, the notability arguments have been supported by the same people who believe the "Controversy" section should not be deleted. 200.38.162.11 22:18, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
More