The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. See comments below. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 14:05, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strampop[edit]

I have never heard of this term, the article is unsourced and a Google search turns up no results. [1] waffle iron 23:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes. However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts: ((subst:spa|username)); suspected canvassed users: ((subst:canvassed|username)); accounts blocked for sockpuppetry: ((subst:csm|username)) or ((subst:csp|username)).

• Delete. I was going to say keep at first, since the article seemed like a good attempt at writing about an interesting subject, but the fact that Google turns up zero results on the word is an amazing feat, even for a word that doesn't exist. Therefore, I must assume it's a hoax. Aplomado - UTC 23:30, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per Aplomado. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bucketsofg (talk • contribs) .

• Keep. The fact that the term does not appear on Google does not mean:

1. That it does not exist

2. That it should not be included in wikipedia.

This term has come to use due to an as-yet uncatalouged niche in the music scene, both localy and internationally. The term "alternative rock" is currently being used to describe a wide plethora of music styles which show no similarity. Hence it should not be deleted because it is in reality defining a part of a very ambigous style of music. (Always assuming alternative rock IS a style of music) Il magistrat 09:08, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• • This comment is Il magistrat (talk · contribs)'s first contribution to Wikipedia. --waffle iron 16:11, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. as per Il magistrat. Google is not comprehensive, nor is it a reflection of cultural trends. Such trends should be documented in wikipedia, hence necessity for the article. 193.188.46.254 09:37, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• KEEP I agree with magistrat. I found this article to be very enlightening and fulfilling. Furthermore I happen to be a fan and occasional exponent of this style so kindly spare us your snobbish comments dear Aplomado. (best regards to pawlu l kant u l magistrat, jiena Alex btw). I also agree with the documentation of new genres. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lazy-crane (talk • contribs)
  • This comment is Lazy-crane (talk · contribs)'s first contribution to Wikipedia. --Craig Stuntz 15:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. as per Il magistrat. Strampop is the local artistes' way of showing two fingers to the more commercial bands. An organised movement of this sort should be catalouged and chronicled. 195.158.96.82 09:49, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• • This comment is 195.158.96.82 (talk · contribs)'s first contribution to Wikipedia. --waffle iron 16:11, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. The term may, as yet, be alien to Americans and Brits, but it is fairly common among us Maltese, and I have often heard the term used to refer to the wide category of 'weird pop' which the article speaks about. English is a living language, and new terms should not be ignored just because they originate in some forgotten Mediterranean backwater as opposed to some prestigious university 217.22.177.86 10:11, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • This comment is 217.22.177.86 (talk · contribs)'s first contribution to Wikipedia. Aplomado - UTC 18:17, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. as per Il magistrat. Strampop is a relatively new term and has only just shown up on the Internet. It's obvious that Google returns no results! The term 'Strampop' is commonly used among us locals, therefore Google can not be used as an accurate measure. Many words in the Maltese Language will not return any results on Google. Would someone like to say that they don't exist? The 'Google Excuse' is no valid reason to delete the Strampop Article. Quite a stupid reason if you ask me. AlanPulis 10:35, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • This comment is AlanPulis (talk · contribs)'s first contribution to Wikipedia. --Craig Stuntz 15:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Strampop is part of the ever expanding Maltese culture, and is steadily becoming ingrained into University life. I have heard people talking about strampop, and others saying they would normally turn to wikipedia for clarification. My scope was to create a 'hit' for these people, once they type it into the searchbox (seeing as Google returns no hits). It should be kept, for completeness' sake. Kilbosh 12:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• • Well then why can't you cite a damn thing then? You're telling me this is a real movement when there's not any mention of it on the internet? I seriously doubt that. It doesn't exist because you say it does. Aplomado - UTC 18:38, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Strongest delete of all time, ever - possible sockpuppet voting. And to clarify. User:Kilbosh himself says that this article is "describing an as-yet un defined niche" on my talk page. This is a neologism. There is no sane classification of music that could suggest Arctic Monkeys, Radiohead, Pink Floyd and Weezer are in the same genre. I am also unsure how these bands are a direct part of Maltese culture. Proto||type 15:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC) vote restructured by Proto||type 15:27, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Request: Please refrain from twisting words and citing only part of the argument. The origin of any term is to describe an "as-yet un defined niche". This page is an attempt at cataloguing a neologism which has now gained usage in the community. With regards to the merit of classification, one must accept that genres are very fluid concepts, and that music follows no science. Your failure to see the connection with the afore mentioned bands is not something which I can judge, but nor should it be the basis for the strongest delete of all time, ever. Kilbosh 15:32, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Clarification No. 2 I think User:Proto is assuming that the article in question is flawless when he states that sane classification of music that could suggest Arctic Monkeys, Radiohead, Pink Floyd and Weezer are in the same genre. Assuming that User:Proto is an expert in musicology and a good connoisseur of these aforementioned bands I do believe that the article does need revision since it did not explain clearly enough the concept of Strampop still I think it should be kept. Il magistrat 15:43, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• I think User:Proto can assume for himself, thanks. Kilbosh, in that case, perhaps you could provide sources for usage of this term in the community. Don't worry about them being in Maltese, although an English one is preferable. As stated on your talk page, there are no references to this 'term' on the Maltese Wikipedia, either (mt.wikipedia.org). And there's zero google hits (in any language). I have put a request on the Wikipedia:Malta-related topics notice board, hoping for a recognised Maltese wikipedian to provide some sort of guidance on the matter. Proto||type 15:57, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Clarification No.3 This is not my first contribution to wikipedia. Although i am surely not to be considered a wikipedian i have made some minor contributions in the past. Thanks. Il magistrat 16:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. I have heard Noise Pollution perform several times and I have to agree that their style is hard to pin down yet i can associate it with the afore-mentioned bands. The beauty of the english language is that it is an ever-changing language and constantly borrows words and phrases from other languages(albeit Maltese not one of them till now) so if one is finding it hard to define this new genre in current english, why not find a word to define it? 212.135.170.82 17:08, 14 March 2006 (UTC) Vazetto[reply]

• KEEP. music is a subjective matter. I strongly believe in the freedom of expression oneself even through music. this is a new style... but so were all the others when they started. why not give these artists space to be creative in new and innovitive ways. i really hope this contribution is not deleted because it is a contribution to culture, something i have at heart. Zuli — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.56.128.2 (talk • contribs)

• Comment: I think a sockpuppetry award is in order here. Aplomado - UTC 18:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete absolutely no Ghits -must be a record!--Porturology 19:15, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: Now, this is my second contribution to Wikipedia. And your point is??? AlanPulis 19:39, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: This is my third.. Wow what a difference it makes!!! AlanPulis 19:39, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, lack of Google hits, probable hoax. Stifle 20:27, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Hold -- will ask around. _└ ^VodkaJazz/_talk^┐ 21:00, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Delete: It is obvious that user Kilbosh created the term and is using wikipedia as some sort of vanity soapbox.
  Example in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Noise Pollution (band):

  *Keep Our band's claim to fame is our coining of the word Strampop, which is gaining popularity in the local scene. I suggest that the validity of Strampop be ascertained, before the deletion of this page is finalised. Kilbosh 12:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

  Emphasis added.
  Please check WP:VANITY for more clarification.
  Please also note that this isn't some sort of culture/music war being leveled against you, strampop fans. If this term is as up-and-coming as you say, it will eventually be eligible for use on Wikipedia. --sigmafactor 21:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Do strampop fans not deserve a say today?Kilbosh 21:55, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: As I mentioned before, this isn't some sort of crusade against you and your band. Please don't mistake it as that. Wikipedia's purpose is to describe notable and vetted information, not all information. --sigmafactor 21:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

*Hold as per VodkaJazz. Comment Could we please await news from VodkaJazz, as well as any replies to Proto's request on Wikipedia:Malta-related topics notice board before further discussion is entertained? Kilbosh 23:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate vote struck. You can go back and strike your original entry if you'd like to change your opinion. BTW I did answer your question on my talk page. --Craig Stuntz 01:04, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• KEEP With respect to all the infantile accusations of sock puppet voting, I'd just like to comment that I am an entirely different person from the major proponents of the term strampop. Feel free to ask me for my personal details if St.Thomas is your boyhood idol. 217.22.177.39 14:45, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • This comment is 217.22.177.39 (talk · contribs)'s first contribution to Wikipedia. Aplomado - UTC 18:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• KeepYes this term DOES exist and has been used for quite a while. It is part of our maltese culture and I am glad that after god nows how many searches I managed to find it hear. I think that the world should know about this new maltese genre and its attributions. Like it or not this exist amd including it should strengthen and not weaken wikipedia - after all it's the 'from the people to the people' that wikipedia is so known about, and its what makes it so updated and fresh. Off course I agree to some degree of control but in this case this genre does exist and we as 'the people' feel that this should be included, since its part of our culture. —This unsigned comment is by Richardpull (talk • contribs) .
  • This comment is Richardpull's first contribution to Wikipedia. --Craig Stuntz 15:37, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• i have encountered this term, if rarely, and i think it should be kept —This unsigned comment is by 193.188.46.254 (talk • contribs) .
  • You already voted. Aplomado - UTC 18:13, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the record that IP address is the one of the university labs at the university of Malta. As a result, multiple users may contribute from the same address (as can be ascertained from the highly variable edit lists). This neither proves nor disproves the virginity of the vote, but is merely a point of information. Kilbosh 21:50, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: You guys don't seem to get it. Whether this is sockpuppetry or getting all your buddies on your forum to come to Wikipedia, this is not a vote so there's no point in stuffing the ballot, or did you not read the notice at the top of this page? Aplomado - UTC 18:09, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Perhaps what you perceive as 'ballot-stuffing' is in fact people's incensed response to your pooh-poohing of a genre they have come to identify with. Keep culture alive. Kilbosh 21:17, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Hey You think we Maltese dont understand english? For your information we can all read and for your information there is no forum believe it or not. However Malta is a small country so if you want you could say the whole place is a forum. Anyway perhaps at the end of the day we are so small our culture should not be included in your so beloved encyclopaedia. Thanks for your time and interest however! Il magistrat 18:26, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Commment on the above Comment Please do not take the addition of the top warning or Aplomado's comment as some sort of bias or personal attack. --sigmafactor 18:33, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Malta, Maltese culture, and Maltese music absolutely deserve a place in this encyclopedia! However, not everything Maltese deserves to be in the encyclopedia, just like not everything American does. The purpose of the discussion is to figure out where to draw the line based on established standards of musical notability. --Craig Stuntz 18:42, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Sir, the established standards of musical notability have no guidelines reflecting the notability of genres. It is understood that any pages sprouting out citing such criteria would have weak strength, should the page be dated post-commencement of this discussion. Kilbosh 21:44, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment on the above comment on the above comment I am not taking it personally. Just wanted to make it clear that we have no forum. If we had youd be able to find about strampop on google. Thanks and i hope i'll be able to add more articles in the future Il magistrat 18:48, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Surely you can understand my reason for thinking this is either sockpuppetry or ballot-stuffing by your buddies when 7 out of 11 keep votes are by first-time contributors. Aplomado - UTC 18:58, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • I do understand and quite honestly I do not blame you. Perhaps it is not yet time for strampop to be included in wikipedia. At the end of the day I do not think it has reached your notability standards - again we are quite a small country. Il magistrat 19:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Keep It exists and is known over here. Maltesedog 20:08, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is a good keep vote due to user's history. Maybe it is known over there, but it sure is hard to verify. Is there anything you can point us to that would assure us, Maltesedog? If you can, I would be willing to change my vote. Aplomado - UTC 20:14, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • I voted "KEEP", because the term is frequently used to describe the music of quite a number of bands locally. It is a term which is getting more and more popular. Maltese bands are still new to the internet so for this reason I would retain. Its a valid contribution. I have heard of the band in question as well. Maltesedog 20:43, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment on Maltese bands working their way onto the internet If you are looking for an internet platform to spread the message of strampop, might I suggest MySpace.com? It is used by millions of english speaking users and has been getting massive ammounts of attention for non-USA bands within the United states.
        I wish the strampop movement all sorts of success, but unfortunately it doesn't meet Wikipedia's notability at this time. --sigmafactor 21:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • Ok.... if u say so. But just for the record if you wanted the advise of an experienced Maltese wikipedian, I have done my work. Terms used in Malta, are not so commonly found over the net. Internet is still a new concept and still only some 37% as far as I know have access to it according to the National Statistics Office.Not sure about rate, but that's the rough estimate. Maltesedog 21:55, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as neologism. Simple as that! Batmanand | Talk 21:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep : If this is a hoax, it's a pretty convincing one! The definition provided is, in all fairness, reasonably acceptable. I find no difficulty in backing its authenticity. Google's failure to supply any evidence of the term's existence should not cause the term "strampop" to be thought of as a term concocted by some contriving rapscallion. If anything the contributor should be given a good old pat on the back for his cloudless definition of the term "strampop". magnolia_pink 00:24, 17 March 2006
  • This comment is Magnolia pink (talk · contribs)'s first contribution to Wikipedia. --waffle iron 23:41, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• I read above: Google's failure to supply any evidence of the term's existence should not cause the term "strampop" to be thought of as a term concocted by some contriving rapscallion. Right. It causes the neologism to be thought of as concocted by a sockpuppetmaster. Delete as a neologism. -- Hoary 16:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • How very funny!!..Not!.. The gist of the phrase above is that the term "strampop" is, perhaps, a colloquialism and, as such, one would not expect it to appear on any Maltese site. Google is hardly deific!! The article should not be deleted on the grounds that the term's usage is informal, because even highly respected dictionaries incorporate colloquialisms. Although my earlier comment was my first contribution to wikipedia, it should not be considered less valid. I use wikipedia from time to time in my research but have never contributed an article. I inadvertently came across the strampop article, while taking a look at what information the site had to offer about Malta. You see, being a small coumtry we aren't usually mentioned in a great deal of things. [magnolia_pink] 21:21, 17 March 2006 —This unsigned comment was added by 212.56.128.186 (talk • contribs) .
    • The indentation seems to suggest that the IP is referring to my comment. However, I don't know which "phrase above" is discussed; anyway, I would expect any real-world colloquialism of the late 20th or 21st century to turn up in web pages, and the question of whether or not "strampop" (if the word even exists) is colloquial is beside the point. It's true that dictionaries incorporate colloquialisms; this too is beside the point as en.Wikipedia is not a dictionary (of English, let alone of Maltese). The use of bold doesn't make any argument any more persuasive, and merely makes it seem as if you are shouting. Finally, I note that most of these, ah, new users voting here not only think alike but also express themselves in the same idiolect of English. -- Hoary 01:30, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete it, kill it, and consider blocking that IP address that keeps using all these friggin' sock puppets. Sparsefarce 00:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: Sir, with you as a member of the [Association of Inclusionist Wikipedians], I would have expected a more sensible reason. Perhaps your membership there is questionable? Kilbosh 11:04, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment It seems as though some people missed the point. Strampop is a neologism. It is a neologism which has been created in Malta a while ago because of the lack of a suitable genre to describe a certain class of music some people continue to call "Alternative Rock". The whole point is not whether this is a neologism but whether it meets wikipedia's "notability standards" which in actual fact have a lot to say about bands and grammy awards but say nothing about the inclusion of Music Genres. You may not want to accept this fact but strampop does exist. And you may not want to accept this fact but I still believe that it is and will be included in Wikipedia. Il magistrat 08:46, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I am not a sock puppet - Name Charles Cassar, Adress 62, Salina Street, Marsaskala, Malta. Come over for a chat if you want to assess my bodily seperation from the other proponents of the term strampop. I am sure the other proponents will equally glad to treat you to tea and crumpets. You can google my name to confirm my existence, since google seems to be the measure of all things. Also please do respect the definition of 'idiolect' given by wikipedia itself; 'An idiolect (sometimes spelled ideolect) is a variety of a language unique to an individual. It is manifested by patterns of word selection and grammar, or words, phrases or idioms that are unique to that individual'. Any one who suggests that my patterns of word selection are equivalent to Killbosh's or Il magistrat's has serious problems. There is, you will be amazed to discover, more than one individual in these islands who can string together five coherent sentences, and the fact that all the proponents of 'strampop' actually possess this ability does not imply that they are one and the same person. Please bring reasoned arguments against the inclusion of strampop not this sockpuppetry cop-out. Thanks. —This unsigned comment was added by 217.22.178.42 (talk • contribs) .

• Hear hear. Incidentally, the strampop page has been vandalized. I have reverted it. Please keep it monitored. I cannot be online non-stop Kilbosh 10:21, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Validity of Discussion Concern Condsidering the repeated cries of sockpuppeting and ballot-stuffing, I wonder if it is actually the delete vote that is trying to orchestrate its efforts! Is there some secret forum, somewhere, where you all meet up and decide to gang up on unexpetant fresh articles? I think its time to put the sock on the other foot, and ask the proposers of the delete vote wether or not they are 'meatpuppetting'.Chris Zuli 11:46, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Closing comment: No, Chris, there is no cabal. I have discounted all the votes by new and anonymous users as per WP:DGFA, given the horrible amount of blatant sockpuppetry, and reviewed the article myself even though it's very clear that this was either an unverifiable, non-notable neologism (unacceptable for Wikipedia) or a hoax. Deleted it is. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 14:05, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.