The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 01:28, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sultan (rapper and afrobeats musician)[edit]

Sultan (rapper and afrobeats musician) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Covert UPE article for a non notable musician who doesn’t satisfy any criterion from WP:MUSICBIO & generally lacks in-depth significant coverage in reliable sources independent of them. The article creator is currently ”walling” as they are creating non notable articles and linking them altogether. Subject of the article indeed got a nomination, but this was from a very non notable award show. Almost all sources used in the article are primary sources and the ones which are reliable are mere announcements. Celestina007 (talk) 12:13, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 12:13, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 12:13, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Nigeria-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 12:13, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 12:13, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Hello my fellow editors, I hope to plead my case for this article not to be deleted, I may not be as experienced as other editors but I believe I gathered enough valid references and information for this article. Citing WP:MUSIC and stipulated by Wikipedia Guidelines this musician references are independent from the artist and they are reputable news sources in Nigeria. The award he was nominated for has been ongoing for 8 years, the same award show has been won by other notable Nigerian musicians who have verifiable articles up on Wikipedia. A Google search of the musician 'Sultan Baby Shark' or Sultan Afroboy' brings relevant hits, I refer to this articles WP:LOTSOFGHITS WP:GOOGLEHITS WP:GHITS. I therefore believe this article is worthy enough to be on and remain in the Wikipedia space. I also politely recommend the article be 'Disambiguate' with the term 'Sultan' as other articles titled Sultan. I hope this article is judged kindly and fairly. I am also citing the articles WP:CARES WP:FAME WP:LOCAL WP:NOTIMELIMIT to support the article to be kept on Wikipedia for relevance. Owpj777 (talk) 13:01, 3 December 2020 (UTC)Owpj777 (talk) 13:59, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Having google hits in unreliable sources is of no use to GNG as GNG requires hits in reliable sources, see WP:RS which subject of your article doesn’t possess hence isn’t worthy of a standalone. Can you provide us with any three solid reliable sources that discusses subject of your article with in-depth significant coverage as required by GNG? or show us what criterion from MUSICBIO he fulfills? Being nominated once in a non notable award show doesn’t count. Furthermore why haven’t you declared your obvious paid/status? Celestina007 (talk) 15:01, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The musician appears in reliable news sources in Nigeria, that is Vanguard Newspaper, The Sun Newspaper and The Nation newspaper, he is also referenced in other national daily articles. I shall cite WP:MUSIC [as per s.1 of criteria for musicians] and [as per s.11 of criteria for musicians] for relevance. The nomination for the award show may not be major but in the locality and considering the notable musicians to have won it and appeared on the show, it is only fair to consider it as a local and notable award show. As I mentioned before in the other talk discussion I sincerely point out that I am not being paid for the article, I am only interested in editing and putting up new articles for fast rising musicians in Afrobeats genre. I asked politely that this article be considered with kindness and fairness. Thank you.Owpj777 (talk) 16:07, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - Dear Owpj777, you can't vote twice. Also, most of your linked Wikipedia pages above (WP:LOTSOFGHITS, WP:GOOGLEHITS, WP:CARES, WP:FAME, etc.) actually work against Sultan's article, and quite strongly. Thanks for joining Wikipedia as a new editor, but take the opportunity to learn that this is an encyclopedia in which people/things must qualify for inclusion and to learn how the various notability guidelines work. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 16:29, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Good luck to the kid as he gets started, but I will be friendly and conclude it is too soon for now. The so-called "reliable" sources cited by Owpj777 are universally reprints of promotional materials from the singer's management, which you can see through the regular use of "rising" and other puffery. All media mentions of the Top Naija Music awards follow the same pattern. Sultan's only media coverage is unreliable reprinted press releases and the usual streaming services. He has not been covered in reliable and significant media, which is necessary for Wikipedia. He can be promoted elsewhere. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 16:37, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Mostly a promotional article about a little-known musician, filled with unsourced information and pointless trivia. Delete, as I can't imagine there is anywhere we could redirect this to. Foxnpichu (talk) 17:12, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete almost all the sources provided are just music promo , fail Wikipedia Notability Samat lib (talk) 18:05, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I would like to say thank you to all the editors that have so far voted, I appreciate your thoughts. I am a rookie in this but I hope to continue getting better and do more write up on refined articles. It would sadden me that the Sultan article is deleted because I put effort into it but I understand the right decision would be taken for Wikipedia. Once again thank you all!Owpj777 (talk) 05:16, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I appreciate your maturity. Should probably mention that, since you are new, AfDs aren't votes. The results are based on how effective everybody's opinion is, rather than how much everybody suggested a certain method. Foxnpichu (talk) 15:12, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Contrary to the nom, there is actually reasonable good of coverage in WP:RS. According to our articles, The Sun (Nigeria) is the highest selling newspaper in Nigeria and The Nation (Nigeria) is the second-most. Both have devoted entire articles to the current subject - it does not seem reasonable to dismiss them as "mere announcements" (I am not sure where this distinction is based upon - WP:GNG only talks about "coverage"). Unless this issue is addressed directly, I think there is a good case that WP:GNG is met. —Brigade Piron (talk) 16:09, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Brigade Piron, both of them are generally considered reliable but the problem is the the Sun source you made mention of is a blatant sponsored post that doesn’t even satisfy WP:SIGCOV & the The Nation source is a combination of an announcement and a sponsored post without in-depth significant coverage. So in summary both sources are of no value to WP:GNG. Celestina007 (talk) 19:20, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Celestina007, do you have any evidence that either newspaper accepts paid articles? —Brigade Piron (talk) 21:45, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

By mere reading the sources you’d observe they are promotional in nature. Both sources use similar wordings when describing the subject which is consistent with pr sponsored posts, coupled with the fact that they both fall short of WP:SIGCOV this is a slam dunk GNG fail. If you can’t see or understand that then there isn’t much I can say other than let the AFD run it’s course. Celestina007 (talk) 22:03, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - There is a difference between a reliable source and a reliable story that appears in that source. Those Nigerian papers might be reliable in other areas, but they are not for music announcements. For example, if The Sun were truly objective in its coverage of young Sultan, it would not have to call him "fast rising" just like his promoter did. Vanguard repeated the same language. That's not reliable journalism. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 22:54, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Doomsdayer520, exactly my point & you couldn’t have said it/explained it any better. Celestina007 (talk) 22:57, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment — Article creator has now been blocked for possible covert UPE which I suspected was the case right from the very beginning. Celestina007 (talk) 19:21, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is the UPE suspected? Foxnpichu (talk) 20:46, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Foxnpichu, do you mind me sending you a private email? Celestina007 (talk) 20:48, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oh. Sorry, I don’t give my email out for security reasons. Foxnpichu (talk) 20:50, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Foxnpichu, a relatively wise decision, but unfortunately things as such are best discussed off-wiki and per beans I do not want to post how I suspected UPE was at play here as I do not want anyone knowing my tricks and evading scrutiny, I hope you understand my catch-22 scenario. Celestina007 (talk) 21:22, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Totally understandable. Foxnpichu (talk) 23:40, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak Keep could be notable due to having nominated for an award and probably having charted in his own country, but this needs some research as it is not mentioned. Peter303x (talk) 22:35, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Naija Music awards is a non notable award show & no he hasn’t charted in Nigeria, so I’m not so sure I understand what you are on about? Also keeping in mind that he satisfies absolutely no criterion from both WP:MUSICBIO & WP:GNG. Celestina007 (talk) 03:59, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requirement #8 at WP:MUSICBIO says a nomination for a major award helps with notability. There are a lot of award "ceremonies" out there that hand out nominations for a fee, are run by media companies for publicity purposes, or are simply unknown. This singer's nomination is surely from one of those. I just honored young Sultan by nominating him for a prestigious Doomsdayer520 Award too. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:28, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. I think there are enough good arguments in favor of deleting. Kolma8 (talk) 22:37, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.