The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) BusterD (talk) 01:29, 27 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The End Is Where We Begin (Thousand Foot Krutch album)[edit]

The End Is Where We Begin (Thousand Foot Krutch album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • Stats)

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independently released album from notable band, WP:NOTINHERITED

all major sales from itunes (only sold directly via kickstarter), no charts. (Itunes sales "charts" are not charts for the purpose of inherent notability)

in WP:BEFORE, found two possible redeeming sources

http://www.underthegunreview.net/2012/04/12/review-thousand-foot-krutch-the-end-is-where-we-begin/

Nice detailed review, but its a blog, and does not meet notability criteria imo.

http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3524087

Nice reliable source, but very local, and is a "local boys make good" story, mostly about the band, with a few sentences about the new album being released without a label.

did google and gnews search using The End Is Where We Begin -"Our Lady Peace" as criteria (Our Lady Peace apparently also released an album with the same name previously) Article was prodded, and endorsed, with prod removed by creator. I decided to let it sit until release to see if any significant buzz happened, but I don't see it. (Was released May 8 in Canada, April 17 in US)

Gaijin42 (talk) 00:35, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bah, my bad, I forgot that I had previously nominated this for deletion and it was kept. I would not have done it again had I remembered, but since I have, and I still hold to my logic above, I will not withdraw at this time, but let it ride out. Gaijin42 (talk) 00:37, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

For fairness sake, here are the 3 links provided by others in the previous discussion

• http://www.newreleasetuesday.com/lyricsdetail.php?lyrics_id=73732
• http://www.jesusfreakhideout.com/artists/ThousandFootKrutch.asp
• http://www.louderthanthemusic.com/document.php?id=2761

The first 2 clearly do not count as only being database/track listings. the third is a brief album announcement from a non reliable blog. Gaijin42 (talk) 00:39, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:32, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Coverage in many sources, especially now that its been released.
  • Allmusic Review
  • JesusFreak Review
  • Indievision Review
  • New Release Tuesday Article (Not the same as the lyrics link from the same site)
• Not especially familiar with the last 2 website, but their articles for this album seem fine, and there's a bunch more out there if need be... Sergecross73 msg me 03:40, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep There's a lot of reviews in reasonably professional websites: see also Christianity Today and The New Review; Denver Post article on the album. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:55, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• An album does not have to be released on a major label (or score a chart position) to be notable. If the band that released it is notable, and its existence and track listing and release date can be properly referenced to reliable sources, then the album is notable enough. Keep. Bearcat (talk) 00:11, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not debating the notability of this particular album as it is clear the way the wind is blowing, but you are completely incorrect in your justification. the notability music guidelines specifically addresses that notability of albums is not inherited from their band. Gaijin42 (talk) 16:26, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. There is some non-trivial coverage, and the album has entered the main Billboard albums chart at number 14.  Gongshow ^Talk 16:44, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Charting on Billboard. Already at No. 14 and on iTunes according to http://www.cmspin.com/newsmanager/anmviewer.asp?a=6650&z=26 and http://www.billboard.com/#/album/thousand-foot-krutch/the-end-is-where-we-begin/1603102 is the official page on billboard.com. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:23, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Reason being: WP:NALBUMS. We clearly have evidence on this discussion page (which will need to actually be placed in the article if not already) for this album to pass the notability test. Based on the guidelines listed (WP:NALBUMS), it should be kept. However, I would also like to see more sources actually in the article for additional support. Either way, it should be kept. Srsrox (talk) 21:44, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.