The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Spartaz ^Humbug! 10:22, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Road to Hell (Sunstorm album)[edit]

The Road to Hell (Sunstorm album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Fails WP:NALBUM. Another in the series of articles by the editor creating articles related to Alessandro Del Vecchio, and another which fails notability. Has been redirected twice, but the creator has reverted the redirect without explanation or improvement, so this now has to be discussed at AfD. The sources from Blabbermouth are simply advance press announcements of the album's release, as is this article from Brave Words [1], but there don't appear to be any articles from reliable sources reviewing or discussing the album after its release. The Belgian Rock Report is a press release provided by the record company (it says so at the bottom). The Sonic Perspectives review is by a fan writing on a non-RS website that solicits CDs for review. Possibly the only thing that comes close to being an RS is Metal Temple but this looks like a worldwide community rather than professional journalists... and anyway, it's only one review, not the multiple sources required to pass notability. The other sources are blogs, Discogs, and the record company's website. I can't find any other reliable sources discussing the album in-depth. Richard3120 (talk) 20:06, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 20:07, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 20:07, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. Agreed, no real RS, although the Blabbermouth was at least amusing... Caro7200 (talk) 21:38, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Exactly, what does it mean for you to deepen an album by the band of Joe Lynn Turner, one of the most important voices in the history of rock / metal? Kekkofranco~enwiki (talk) 9:29, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
    • This has been explained to you at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kee of Hearts (album), but you still don't seem to get it. I know very well who Joe Lynn Turner is, and the famous bands he has been in throughout his career. But that does not mean everything he is involved in is automatically notable, as stated in WP:INHERITED. Not even every record by the Beatles is notable. Every record has to be notable on its own terms, being reviewed or discussed in depth in reliable sources per WP:NALBUM, to qualify for its own Wikipedia article. Richard3120 (talk) 14:41, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have further updated the article with reliable sources such as Blabbermouth, BraveWords and Fireworks (Rocktopia).

In case there are any fixes to do, I trust in your help. Kekkofranco~enwiki (talk) 15:34, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but the sources from Blabbermouth and Brave Words are still nothing more than announcements of forthcoming releases, they don't demonstrate notability. They are also clearly press releases provided by the record company, not by journalists of those publications, because they use exactly the same wording in each article. So they aren't independent. Rocktopia might be the only source so far in the whole article that would pass as an RS – certainly none of the others do. Richard3120 (talk) 14:42, 31 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: Per Kekkofranco~enwiki. Sources recently added by the creator are reliable enough, hence making the article good enough to pass WP:NALBUM. ASTIG😎 _{(ICE T • ICE CUBE)} 06:00, 31 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • BTW, if you're thinking of arguing with me over my vote, don't bother responding at all. I'm not interested in looking for an argument in this AfD. So, I won't reply. My vote stands no matter what. ASTIG😎 _{(ICE T • ICE CUBE)} 06:06, 31 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It would have been a good idea to actually check the reliability of the sources before you made your vote, because then you would have seen that at best only one of the four reviews in the table come from reliable sources, and the sources that are reliable, such as Brave Words and Blabbermouth, are simply press announcements by the record label of forthcoming releases, they don't show that the album is notable. Richard3120 (talk) 14:42, 31 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep or redirect - Keep, or redirect to Sunstorm (band). --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:45, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jax 0677: "Keep" based on what? Can you show me where the reliable, independent in-depth sources are in this article? Richard3120 (talk) 16:12, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Richard3120: In addition to Rocktopia, Metal Heads Forever and Musictap are independent and reliable sources. In fact there are also in other articles dedicated to other albums. My work on this during this "quarantine" continues and I will provide you with other reliable sources or that, however, this relevant record. Kekkofranco~enwiki (talk) 18:14, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kekkofranco~enwiki: It may be your opinion that these are reliable sources, but we've had discussions on these and similar hard rock websites in the past, and the consensus has been that these are just blogs written by fans, not professional journalists. If they are in other articles they should be deleted from those articles as well, not used as a reason to add them to this one. Richard3120 (talk) 22:34, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Richard3120: They are not opinions and I could say the same of what you write. Rocktopia is the site of the Fireworks magazine; Metal Heads Forever is an important music magazine in this sector, both on paper and on the web. Same thing goes for MusicTap. However I believe that if important sites / magazines like Brave Words and Blabbermouth find it important to publish info on such an album there will be a reason. Kekkofranco~enwiki (talk) 12:34, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Richard3120:, note I said "Keep or redirect", meaning that if it can not be kept, it can be redirected with history in tact. --Jax 0677 (talk) 20:44, 8 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jax 0677:, well, yes, I know that can be done, but you still haven't given any reason for saying "keep" in the first place. Richard3120 (talk) 20:46, 8 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Richard3120:, I am open to either or. --Jax 0677 (talk) 20:48, 8 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You've been here for years, and still you don't know how AfD works??? You're supposed to give the reasoning behind your vote, not say whether it bothers you or not. Richard3120 (talk) 20:52, 8 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: Still not convinced that the sources are independent and authoritative? Rocktopia (Fireworks), Metal Heads Forever and also Metal Temple are present in many other important album articles on this wikipedia. In addition, I also found important feedback for The Rocktologist magazine. Sonic Perspectives also has a certain authority, otherwise they would not make interviews with important artists such as Eric Peterson of Testament. Kekkofranco~enwiki (talk) 11:30, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The fact they are present in other articles is a WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument and in no way proves they are notable sources. Even school fanzines can (and do) have interviews with famous rock stars, so that means zero, really, in terms of how authoritative they are. Richard3120 (talk) 15:45, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: @Jax 0677: please give us a good explanation on why you voted to keep/redirect this article. ASTIG😎 _{(ICE T • ICE CUBE)} 02:23, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - Keep the "history in tact". --Jax 0677 (talk) 17:30, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.