- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Bbb23 (talk) 15:40, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Ultrasoft (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The citations given only confirm the existence of the company, not its notability. The page was created for self-promotional reasons by the founder of the company Special:Contributions/NeonPuffin aka Louis Wittek. WP:NOTYOU clearly applies. MrMajors (talk) 17:14, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 17:28, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 17:28, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Slovakia-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 17:28, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - Ultrasoft, with over 40 titles to its credit, was in its time the biggest game software publisher in Czechoslovakia and one of the biggest European producers of computer games during the 1990s. Deleting this article would be akin to altering the history of 8-bit personal home computers, particularly ZX Spectrum. There was hardly a single ZX Spectrum owner on the territory of former Czechoslovakia who wouldn't own at least one gaming title from this publishing house. Regardless who created this article, if Ultrasoft should go, so should Domark, Gremlin Interactive, Ocean Software, Imagine Software, etc, etc... Last but not least - it seems that MrMajors embarked on some sort of personal deletion vendetta against me - I always admired work of 95% of Wikipedia editors, but was often in the past put off and saddened by efforts of a small percentage of those, who seem to be constantly set in a default negativistic attitude and for some strange reason are adamant to destroy other people's work, whatever the cost. This page was not created for self-promotional reasons - hardly - we are talking here about the long-past history of video games (25-30 years ago) - although, history it is nonetheless.
- "One of the biggest European producers of computer games" but apparently not a single independent source can verify that. It's also apparently a complete coincidence that pages for both Ultrasoft and Towdie were created just before launching a kickstarter to re-boot the game. MrMajors (talk) 11:36, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Regardless of the reasons for creating the article in the first place, the appropriate guideline is WP:NCORP which requires references to establish notability. Having searched, there appears to be a number of books (history of video games mostly) which provide varying amount of information about the company and I have no doubt there are likely other references in the Czech language. HighKing++ 19:58, 13 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- as per WP:SIRS, references must "contain significant coverage addressing the subject of the article directly and in depth.". Do they? MrMajors (talk) 10:25, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Check out "Copyright and Consequences: Central European and U.S. Perspectives" ISBN:ISBN1572734167 for a start. HighKing++ 10:48, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Is a passing mention on one of 300 pages "direct" or "significant" coverage? The text is about copyright law in Slovakia - not about the company specifically. It doesn't establish notability, especially considering the owner of the company is claiming this was one of the biggest producers of games in Europe comparable to Ocean or Domark/Eidos. MrMajors (talk) 11:52, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Page 118 is entitled "Ultrasoft, A Company to Combat Software Pirates" and is more than a passing mention. HighKing++ 16:31, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- the WP:NCORP guidance specific to companies states "Sources that describe only a specific topic related to an organization should not be regarded as providing significant coverage of that organization". This reference simply confirms that Ultrasoft was a company in Bratislava and had a problem with software piracy - it does nothing to establish the notability of the company. MrMajors (talk) 11:38, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- This is a very interesting point made by HighKing++ (which I have completely forgotten about, as it is a 25 year-old history) and yet another reason why this article should be kept. In addition to publishing own computer games, Ultrasoft also acted as an exclusive distributor within the territory of Czechoslovakia for Domark and Ocean Software game software houses based in the United Kingdom and therefore as a single enforcerer of copyright laws pertaining to the computer game titles published not only by Ultrasoft, but also by the aforementioned two companies. Before this, the territory of Czechoslovakia was with regards to video game sales largely a Wild West-like scenario, with dozens of people selling pirated copies of video games for 8 and 16-bit home computers such as ZX Spectrum, C64 and Amiga literally for pennies. Before, and alongside, Ultrasoft there simply weren’t any other legal computer games distributors in Czechoslovakia - certainly not on this professional level (see the examples of game covers) and at this scale (see the high number of titles published). Ultrasoft was the very first company to try and put stop to these shady practices and promote sale of original computer games – and it deserves a credit for this. If this article would go, it would basically mean that Wikipedia is rewriting the history of 8-bit video games in Czechoslovakia in the 90s and would imply that there was only black market in such video games at that time – which is absolutely NOT the case. NeonPuffin (talk) 15:41, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ─ The Aafī (talk) 12:31, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. These games have coverage in Czech gaming magazines (see Internet Archive and World of Spectrum) and in a worst case scenario would serve as a home for those references as a list of titles. (not watching, please
((ping))) czar 04:49, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep: As others have pointed out, this company published quite a few games in its time and was a significant video game entity in its country. It's entirely plausible that non-English sources also exist. Would certainly seem to pass notability guidelines. DocFreeman24 (talk) 22:53, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep, clearly notable with many references in books and magazines.Jackattack1597 (talk) 11:59, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- The article currently has zero references from reliable third parties. Where are the "many references" that would reach the threshold for "significant coverage"? MrMajors (talk) 12:08, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Seems to have some coverage in depth in the book "Gaming the Iron Curtain: How Teenagers and Amateurs in Communist Czechoslovakia Claimed the Medium of Computer Games" (Jaroslav Svelch, 2018), and in "Fans and Videogames Histories, Fandom, Archives" ( Angela Ndalianis, Helen Stuckey , 2017). From other hits, likely Czech gaming magazines of the 1980s and 1990s would have more coverage, meaning that this needs a more thorough BEFORE search of those magazines and not a reliance of online searching to verify lack of sourcing. --Masem (t) 14:10, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.