The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. No prejudice against speedy renomination. (non-admin closure) Linguist111 (talk) 12:55, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Valery Kaufman[edit]

Valery Kaufman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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I've declined a WP:G4 request on this—the text isn't at all identical, let alone 'substantially identical', to the previously-deleted article—but every argument at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Valery Kaufman still stands. There's still no indication that this person is notable by Wikipedia's specific definition of the term, and none of the issues which led to the previous deletion have been addressed.  ‑ Iridescent 03:36, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fashion and Russia.  ‑ Iridescent 03:36, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Let's start the discussion with a specific rule or criterion of importance that must be met by a person from the modeling business in order to write a Wikipedia article about them. Is this WP:BIO rule correct? --JukoFF (talk) 08:26, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Fails WP:GNG. Just the sort of fancruft which gets churned out for these non-notable individuals.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 11:50, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • onel5969 I don't understand why you're referring to a general significance criterion (WP:GNG) if the significance of all articles about people in Wikipedia is governed by the more precise and specifically created rule WP:BIO? I have no difficulty in justifying a person's compliance with the rule I mentioned above. However, if this does not suit you (perhaps you are not well acquainted with the criteria of significance or for some other reason) I can also justify the encyclopedic significance of the person by the broader rule WP:GNG to which you refer. But it is not very rational, still, it seems to me correct to refer to the rule WP:BIO, which is created for such cases. JukoFF (talk) 13:42, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:52, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. She might be notable per Wikipedia:ENTERTAINER #1 ("Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions"). However, at least some references on the page (I did not check all) seems "fake". For example, it says "In 2015, she was recognized as the best Russian model by Glamour magazine" with a reference to [1]. But the posting (a blog) does not support the claim. Other claims on the page indicate that she is just a successful model, which is not enough.My very best wishes (talk) 01:25, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Replaced the references to the statement that the model was recognized as the 2015 model of the year in Russia. JukoFF (talk) 05:48, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • According to Wikipedia:ENTERTAINER (Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions) Victoria's Secret Fashion Show 2015 and Victoria's Secret Fashion Show 2015 are such significant shows that there are separate Wikipedia articles about them. And objectively, these shows were actually the main shows of the year, in which the world's leading models were selected. In addition to this, the article has references to articles about models in ELLE and Vogue magazines, which are the leading core magazines in the modeling industry. JukoFF (talk) 05:57, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:24, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep Coverage in Elle that seems substantial, then lesser-so coverage in Teen Vogue and a few other fashion mags. The Victoria's Secret shows would be notable events. I can't google them at work (silly firewall), but I think it's just past notability. Oaktree b (talk) 18:01, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 07:19, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Let’s look at the facts here as this is my so-called specialization: ELLE, which is a fashion magazine, not a lifestyle magazine like Vanity Fair, made more of a point that she may have been dating Jared Leto than her actual career. They give one paragraph about that, recounting her quote as to how she was discovered. They say she was once ranked on models.com’s Top 50 models list (and I will once again use the opportunity to say models.com’s lists are in-fact notable in their own right. When she was on the list they pointed out how Hedi Slimane ostensibly picked her for a Saint Laurent campaign. They said editorials in Vogue Russia, Interview, and W put her on that list. At the time, other campaigns she was in were for DKNY and Coach.). Despite the fact that 4 years before this article, she was actually in ELLE as a model, in a solo editorial called "Pump Up the Volume", they make no mention of this! The now-defunct Victoria's Secret Fashion Show was an annual pop culture event, but that surely isn’t enough to inherently guarantee an article, as 17 other models who had been in the shows from 2010-2018 don’t have articles as we speak. At least one of them was deleted for lack of notability outside of being in the show. I also don’t know why that is only sourced to Fashion Model Directory which should only be used when there are truly no other sources, rather than a magazine. Even still, all you will get from that is a list with photos that confirm the cast of the show. ELLE said the only in-depth interview of her out there is from i-D. 10 questions is not in-depth. So I say all that to say, she’s done notable work but when you can’t verify that without scouring through gossip it’s not worth an article if you have standards. A model who has walked for Balmain, Chanel, Dolce & Gabbana, and other top designers should be independently notable—it shouldn’t be an afterthought to allegedly dating a celebrity. But that’s all sources give here. Trillfendi (talk) 23:26, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.