The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Redirected to Settlers of Catan. Editors are encouraged to seek consensus as the the extent and appropriateness of merging this content to that page. Pastordavid (talk) 19:34, 15 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Variations of Settlers of Catan[edit]

Variations of Settlers of Catan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

This page has been created as a home for fan-made unofficial non-notable variations. Wikipedia is not for things you made up; it's not a webhost and it's not a directory. Unofficial, non-notable variations on a game don't belong here, they belong on BoardGameGeek. Percy Snoodle (talk) 10:14, 27 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It looks like you didn't do your research. In America, games are not copyrighted by concept, but by name and artwork. So even if the a variation is not released by the copyright holder of the original game, doesn't mean that someone else cannot copyright and release their own variations. In fact, in the case of S3D Connector, that's exactly what they did. If being legally recognized doesn't make it notable, I don't know what does. Elliandr (talk) 01:54, April 1st 2008 (CST)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Game-related-related deletion discussions. —Percy Snoodle (talk) 10:18, 27 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• Delete variations on a game are not notable in themselves imho. merge if anything. AlbinoFerret (talk) 13:17, 27 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Note: This debate has been added to the list of video game deletions. Someoneanother 10:17, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• Merge into Settlers_of_Catan. Not enough merit to stand on it's own as a spinoff.Gazimoff (talk) 10:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Question what content do you think the article has, that should be merged? Percy Snoodle (talk) 10:55, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Not very much, essentially. The video game section of the main article needs some citations, which could be provided from this spinoff's inline links. There's one to an MS press release and another to a developer press release. That variants exist might be worth a sentence or two in the series section in the main article without really giving it undue weight, possibly with a single citation. I'm not going to advocate merging in the entire list as the individual variations themselves are not notable. I hope that clears it up. --Gazimoff (talk) 23:08, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      • Yes, that sounds sensible to me. Percy Snoodle (talk) 08:30, 31 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• Keep These are actual official variations, some of which you can buy in the store (I just did buy the fisherman one). There are some reviews. I only looked for the fishermen of catan one:
  • http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/13/13257.phtml
  • http://www.criticalgamers.com/archives/board-games/now_shipping_settlers_the_fish.php

Between all the variations, I'm fairly certain notability is over the bar. Hobit (talk) 15:36, 30 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Comment just to be clear, the nom is incorrect that (any?) of these are either fan-made or unofficial. Hobit (talk) 03:17, 31 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment I didn't say that - I said the article was created as a home for unofficial ones. See Talk:Settlers of Catan#Variations article. Percy Snoodle (talk) 06:36, 31 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Ah, I missed the difference, sorry. But just for the record, those unofficial ones don't seem to be there. Hobit (talk) 00:04, 2 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      • Depends when you look - Elliandr keeps adding them back in. Percy Snoodle (talk) 08:22, 2 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Keep, cleanup, and improve like the Chess variant article or List of poker variants article. The Settlers of Catan article looks fairly long already, as does List of Settlers of Catan products — although I suppose much of this information could be condensed and merged into a paragraph in the Settlers of Catan article. Many of these variants were created by Klaus Teuber himself. --Pixelface (talk) 08:10, 31 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Keep The purpose of Wikipedia is to present facts, not opinions. Mayfair Games, on their own website, presents variations of this game that they do not support but clearly do not have a problem with. The purpose of writing this article is not to be a "link farm" as Percy Snoodle puts it, but to present information for all kinds of variations physical and digital. To deny information from existing on Wikipedia therefore is an act of censorship. Articles exist for many games on Wikipedia, and many variations of many games. If you consider unofficial variations of a game, physical or digital, to be of the same game, then I feel this information should be merged into Settlers of Catan. If you consider this to be not of the same game, then they should be allowed to be talked about as it's own article. However, no matter what you consider it, this article complies with the rules. (the only reason I created it as a separate page was because I got tired of reading about people deleting the history files and felt that if so many people wanted it to be treated as a separate game, then I could live with it being on a separate page.) I looked at the conditions under which an article can be deleted, and none of them apply here. The information complies with a neutral point of view (displaying information from all sources without bias) no original research done, all information is true and not under copyright. References are listed and verifiable. No advertisements are being made. External links are not excessive nor do they dwarf information. Content listed is not copyright information.... on the contrary, it seems to me that some people are going out of there way to delete this kind of information, both from the history pages of [Settlers of Catan] and by trying to delete new articles in general. I strongly suspect foul play here. Especially since many of the variants, although "unofficial" were also created by the original creator of the game. I mean, just because the original creator of Tetris doesn't own the copyrights to his own creation because of socialism doesn't make his contribution to his own game any less important. So why would the contributions made to this game be any different? One way or another, one form or another, I strongly disagree with censorship of the facts and I won't sit by while someone makes a mockery of the facts. --Elliandr 00:05, April 1st 2008 (CST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elliandr (talk • P.S. I know it would look like I am a new user, but the truth is I just lost my password as Elliander and although I had an e-mail tied to it for some reason it's not showing up in the system. I just wanted to make sure people didn't think I am a new user who hasn't used Wikipedia much before.contribs)
• Delete. Page seems an attempt to include so-called "Settlers" games in the list, which were removed by consensus from the Catan articles. Information on "Settlers of Catan" games can be merged into the Catan articles. Information on the unlicensed "settlers" games, if encyclopedic, should not mention "Catan" in the title. -- JHunterJ (talk) 02:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 20:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Keep. Article needs cleanup and improvement, but those can be solved by things other than deletion. Keep per the reviews that have been given higher in the discussion. Celarnor ^{Talk to me} 20:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Weak Keep or Merge with Settlers of Catan. Luksuh 21:09, 5 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Keep needs a cleanup but ought to be retained...--Cameron (t|p|c) 22:06, 5 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• Delete I would think that any variations for which secondary sources exist could be included in the main Settlers page. --Craw-daddy | T | 12:51, 8 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Isn't that a merge then?Hobit (talk) 00:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'll clarify... Delete and redirect to Settlers of Catan, merging any "official" variations, i.e. those designed by Mayfair, to the main article. --Craw-daddy | T | 14:14, 13 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Thanks. Hobit (talk) 00:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Delete - seems unlikely that there will be any independent, reliable sources to cite: This is not a notable subject. Can be reduced to a single sentence on Settlers of Catan, linking to the offical mayfair games variants archive. Edit: Both Fishermen of Catan and the various video games have multiple independent references available but really need their own articles written from the ground up. Marasmusine (talk) 16:05, 12 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Isn't that an organizational problem and not a reason to delete?Hobit (talk) 00:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.