The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Wusong. No prejudice against restoring if better sources become available. Randykitty (talk) 14:52, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wusung Radio Tower[edit]

Wusung Radio Tower (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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I don't find any information or references about this tower in China or in Chinese. As a person who lived in Shanghai, I never heard this 321-metre-tall tower. Also, I don't think Shanghai is able to build a 321-metre-tall tower in 1930s. So, I doubt whether it really exists. Njzjz (talk) 22:10, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. Njzjz (talk) 22:10, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:19, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment A Google books search brings up a few hits, albeit "Woosung", seems to have been a navigation landmark there, 1943 or so. Oaktree b (talk) 22:25, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete for now - I also did a Google books search along with a few other searches and came up with nothing, and the navigational landmark book from 1943 doesn't mention any sort of major radio tower from what I can tell. The German book doesn't look unreliable but I can't access it. The Slovak language page has the name of this in Chinese, could be a mis-translation, but that may be our best bet for determining even WP:V. SportingFlyer T·C 22:32, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:21, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment The source is surely reliable, it's a book about the Deutschlandsender III which was a 337 metre mast built in 1938/39 in Germany, this was the second-tallest structure in the world and the Wusung mast is presumably mentioned in the book as being the previous second-tallest from which this one in Germany claimed that title. Looking at the creator's other contributions it seems more likely than not that they had access to the source as there's no evidence that they were in the habit of creating hoaxes. I note the also added the mast to List of tallest structures – 300 to 400 metres with the additional information it was a long-wave transmitter. The nominator doubts its existence as they've never heard of it, so is it conceivable that such a mast could have existed without their knowledge? Maybe.

For a start there was definitely a large radio transmitter in Wusung at the time of the 1932 January 28 incident - see this map where you can see it illustrated at the top on the side of the river at Woosung Forts. However I suspect this was a transmitter less than 100 metres tall, because there is another illustrated on that map above the blue circle in the middle left marked Chenju. Both of these show a collection of masts - this shows they were similar to the Marconi beam wireless station opened in 1934 in Chenju (after the Woosung and previous Chenju masts were destroyed by Japanese bombing in 1932 [1]) as detailed here: [2] and these generally looked like this, as the 1934 one was stated as being paired with Dorchester and Somerton sites of the Imperial Wireless Chain Beam stations.

However the 1930s were a boom time for radio in Shanghai with more than 100 stations broadcasting. These included the German XGRS as well as Soviet, British, American and Chinese stations ([3], [4]). This CIA document explains XGRS was the most powerful long-wave station in Shanghai, and was broadcast from the Kaiser Wilhelm Schule - you can see the long-wave transmitter in this drawing - certainly not 321 metres tall. This would appear to rule out a German origin of the Wusung mast. Wusung was Japanese-occupied from 1937, and we know they had built NHK Kawaguchi Transmitter in Japan which was was 312 metres tall, but this was a T-antenna as they didn't have a good capability of building mast-type transmitters, so unlikely they built one in occupied Chinese territory in the same year. So, although there are lots of possibilities for the construction of a tall radio mast in this area in the 1930s, it does seem unlikely such a tall one was built prior to 1938/39 in Wusung, it would probably have to be a Chinese/Soviet construction, and if destroyed by the end of WWII might only be documented in military sources etc.. Unfortunately the book referenced in the article is €165 on ebay, but maybe someone can find it in a library.----Pontificalibus 10:48, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. --Pontificalibus 16:05, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I can confirm there was "Wusung Radio Station" (吳淞電台) since 1908 (i.e. the transmitter in this map) and it was bombed by the Japanese army according to this photo. Is it so-called "Wusung Radio Tower"? However, there is no evidence that this tower is 321 metres tall. If it was that tall, it should be a huge achievement in China and should be recorded by many sources.--Njzjz (talk) 23:36, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Soft delete due to WP:V concerns, allowing a WP:REFUND to anyone who can provide an additional source or a substantiating quote from the existing source ("Ein Riese unter Riesen" by Helmut Knuppe).----Pontificalibus 15:10, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to Wusong: It's best to discuss it in the target article, along with the sources indicated above. ASTIG😎 _{(ICE T • ICE CUBE)} 16:00, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.